Hit-N-Record
Welcome to Hit-N-Record! I'm Keno Manuel, a filmmaker, and I’m excited to bring you inspiring and insightful conversations with some of the most influential and creative minds in the creative space.
Each episode, I sit down with local creatives from filmmaking, photography, and other creative industries, offering you a unique perspective on their successes, challenges, and the lessons they've learned along the way.
Whether you're an aspiring filmmaking professional, an entrepreneur, or someone passionate about personal growth, I hope to provide and inspire you with the motivation and tools to unlock your potential and achieve your goals.
Join me every month on Spotify and Youtube, and become a part of the Hit-N-Record community!
Hit-N-Record
Living with Grief and Fatherhood with Quinn Erwin
Have you ever considered the symphony of experiences that compose a life? This episode is a moving narrative, featuring Quinn Erwin, an artist whose music is as much about the notes on the page as it is about the life that dances around them. Erwin opens up about the crescendos and diminuendos of his personal and professional world, from his roots sown in a musical family to the harmonious blend of fatherhood and a career in music. We wander through his past, influenced by a variety of genres and a drummer father, to understand how these melodies have shaped his creative essence.
As Quinn strings chords of wisdom on balancing protection and nurturing of his children's individuality, he also delves into the profound impact of love, loss, and the shared human experience. Through laughter and tears, the conversation unfolds like a carefully composed album, journeying through tales of artistic evolution, the search for authenticity, and the intimate process of creating music that echoes through the lives of listeners. Each chapter of this dialogue is a testament to the resilience and transformative power of following one's passion, with Erwin's narrative touching both the heart and the soul.
Closing on a note that resonates with anyone who has ever dreamt of leaving a legacy, we contemplate the enduring connection music creates between us and those we hold dear. Through the lens of Erwin's experiences, we are reminded of the collective joy and hope that art can inspire. So lend us your ears for an episode that not only entertains but also enriches, offering a front-row seat to the life of an artist who crafts more than just songs—he crafts experiences that last a lifetime.
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You got a decent voice, pretty good songwriter he's like, but you don't have that one song that like is going to put you on the map. There's nothing really interesting about you. How do you take the criticism like that? I didn't let that deflate me. I went back and I scrapped my solo record. No way.
Speaker 1:I love music because it's a universal language, you know, and we all get to add our note to Times Treble Clef. As a music maker, it's this really unique responsibility. Happiness, I think, is a very temporal thing. It's very like an itch. You know that you need to scratch, or joy is got like this. It's a constant feeling. It's a constant, it's a power. It's joy and grief are friends. The depth of my grief is the depth of my joy, and so the more that I tend to the hard stuff in my life, it makes my joy more powerful, more real, more felt. You know the words I love you, right? They seem they're very simple words and we've heard it, heard those words in a thousand songs, but there's some songs where those three words are used and for some reason it hits us differently. There's a whole world in our words. You know, my dream one day is to be on a big stage and look over and you see them cheering you on.
Speaker 1:You know, wink, I need to succeed, so they succeed what's up guys?
Speaker 4:uh, welcome back to the hit record episode. We have another guest and his name is quinn erwin, but I'm gonna have you say your name. Do that camera right there all right.
Speaker 1:Hey guys, I'm quinn erwin and uh, yeah, I'm so stoked to be here.
Speaker 4:Keno, thank you for having me, man. Thank you for driving all the way here. By the way, this is a uh that's a cup.
Speaker 1:Yes, actually a cup. That's actually. It's funny because I saw that on the table initially and I was like, looked at it for a second I was like, well, that's a cool lens. And then I I kind of you know leaned over. I was like, well, that's a cool lens. And then I I kind of you know leaned over.
Speaker 4:I was like, oh, that is not a lens my the other guest, uh, summer, uh, by the way, the episode will be coming out soon. Um, so stay tuned for that summer.
Speaker 1:She kept wondering why I kept holding it and not do anything with it and okay and when I did this so she, she thought like I wonder if she thought you were messing with her or something, or no, most people think it's a cup of toy drink.
Speaker 3:Okay got it but anyways so thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, this is awesome.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and so this episode, guys, we're going to be talking about a lot of things, ranging from his musical career to music licensing and how you can apply what he learned throughout his journey into your own career as well. And yeah, stay tuned for it for the rest of the conversation. Now, before we get started, don't forget to like and subscribe to this YouTube video. On YouTube. You can also follow us on Instagram, hidden Record, all the other social platforms it's all going to be in the description below. I am not going to list out everyone, but if you want to follow, it's all in the description. So are you ready for this, quinn?
Speaker 1:Keno, bring it on man.
Speaker 4:All right, here we go.
Speaker 1:So, quinn, tell us who you are, what you do, your mission in life as a creative and the early influences that sparked your interest as a musician and how you express your creativity. Okay, so, um, I'm quinn obviously I said that quinn erwin, um, and I am a working musician and artist and I've been at this for over a decade, which is really wild to say that, but I have been making music since I was about 15. So, yeah, 15., but I would say that my interest in music is like farther back than that. My dad was a drummer, so I grew up with my dad playing drums and, uh, he, he played in church.
Speaker 1:So I would go with him as a whippersnapper and my parents split pretty early so it's kind of like I was, you know, bouncing between the two of them, but when I was with my dad he would play. Um, he's also in the navy so he moved around a lot. So I had a lot of different experiences with him playing instruments. So he was a drummer and a percussionist. So depending on where he was at, he'd either play the kid or he'd have like bongos and congas and shakers and rattles and all kinds of stuff and he had really interesting he still does musical taste. So I grew up with a lot of world music and I also grew up with a lot of like Genesis and Toto and like a lot of like Toto.
Speaker 1:Africa Like 80s, like really cool 80s music. I know that Genesis people gave Genesis a really hard time at a certain point I've never heard of that actually. Well, I mean I think because Phil Collins and Genesis, like to some people, were overplayed, like it became like soft radio, basically Okay, but I think that's silly. I think Genesis is amazing.
Speaker 4:But then again, music of itself is always going to be evolving, yeah, so, yes, it could be overplayed, but there will never be a music that, in my opinion, that stays the same. It always takes on a different form up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think my dad liked Genesis because I think in a way he views Genesis and if my dad ever listens or sees this he can correct me if I'm wrong. But Genesis is kind of like an underdog band. Okay, you know, like they were. You know, early Genesis is very like prog rock-y, and then eventually Genesis is like more like radio once they had a membership change in the band. But I like the whole canon personally. Peter Gabriel was the original lead singer of Genesis. So, yeah, canon personally.
Speaker 1:Uh, peter gabriel was the original lead singer of genesis.
Speaker 4:So yeah, so uh, okay, we didn't already like uh, on the same level as the big name artists or bands at the time, like queen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like you're like, uh, you know, you're gonna know, you know back in that time, um, you know, yes, uh, pink floyd, like like a lot of those kind of prog-rocky acts or whatever. Genesis would have been known like a lot of those bands and they were just kind of doing their own thing.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, you're good yeah yeah, so beyond that, when I was with my mom it was a lot of like 80s radio, so there's like Tears for Fears, madonna, michael Jackson, like 80s radio. So there's like Tears for Fears, madonna, michael Jackson. And then my mom was a single mom and she moved us in with my grandparents and so when I lived with my grandparents I got really close to my uncle, who's only like nine years older than me.
Speaker 1:So he's kind of like my big brother. He's more like a brother than uncle and so he's a teenager and'm growing up in, um, the mtv generation. So like I'm seeing you know, uh, bon jovi and poison, you know the talking heads and and um, peter gabriel, uh, on mtv. So david bowie, like all these, this new, this new thing with with videos and music videos and stuff, right, I'm like growing up watching this. So music is, in that sense, it's like really fascinating to me because it's got that visual component. And so as I'm growing up, I'm always listening to the radio, always interested in music.
Speaker 1:When I was with my dad I would try to jump behind the kit. I was always humming stuff or trying to put words and melody together. But it's like you know, it's an instinct, but it's not like I know this is a thing you do. This is you can have a career with this, necessarily, right, but inevitably. As a kid I like in like third grade I asked my mom if I could invite some friends over and form a group. Oh, okay, so yeah.
Speaker 1:So I had some, and it quickly devolved into us chasing each other around my grandparents' house. So nothing ever came of it. But yeah. So music was always in my life. It was a thing I enjoyed, it was something that moved me.
Speaker 4:Would you say your father? Has he said anything about whenever he listened to your own interpretation of your own music and how you express your voice?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, I mean we've definitely had conversations. My dad and I had a little bit more of an intimate connection with music outside of just him being a musician. Like you know, I grew up in the church and my dad had a ministry, and so I was doing things with music in his ministry.
Speaker 1:So, there was a lot of conversation happening then, conversation happening around like when I started writing my own stuff and wanting to, um, you know, have my own voice right and sing about uh, whatever I wanted to sing about, write about what I ever wanted about, uh, and so it was.
Speaker 4:There was a lot of um conversation in that sense and and you know, like there would be arguments about you know what I want to listen to versus what he's okay with, or you know stuff like that and oh yeah I can imagine with the ministry, especially when you start listening to um like rock bands, where, from my initial impression because what from what I've seen is like, whenever people from a religious background, when they get exposed to the um other genres of music, it tends to solidify to them Like hmm, it's not a good kind of music, like they automatically put that as a stamp.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it's an interesting thing, because my dad, you know, obviously my parents were split and obviously my parents were split and their perspectives on God and their perspectives on music were slightly different. And so my dad's journey with God, and how that affected what he listened to or what he consumed, was different than my mom, and so, depending on what household I was in, I had access to different things, and in the nineties, like it was, there was a lot of amazing music happening.
Speaker 1:Nirvana is a huge part of that time. You've got like Tupac, you've got Biggie, and I remember being in sixth grade and, uh, singing gin and juice, which I didn't have any idea what that was or what it meant, you know. But like you know, I mean like and, and you know being a kid, there's like you're you're consuming anything you can get your hands on, and and so when I'm living with my mom, that's that's a lot of what's happening. I'm getting stuff from her and then and my, you know, like he's feeding me stuff. So I like remember hearing Pearl Jam for the first time because of him, you know.
Speaker 1:Jimi Hendrix for the first time because of him, the Beatles, you know, and so I think when my dad there was just a time where he was trying to cut anything out of his life that just didn't feel like it was helpful to his journey with God, and I mean, frankly, I was into that for a moment I was like you know, is there a? It was kind of odd like at the time, like people were trying to find like Christian substitutes for things. Right.
Speaker 1:So there were like things that were available and I just remember, as I sort of journeyed into that, um how like it was kind of tough because it was like it didn't, like you said, it didn't sound as good. There was something about it that felt like not quite X, y, z, but then you have like subcultures, that sort of crop out of that. So, um, there was like a, a bunch of artists that were, you know, like they were Christians but they were making music that felt more like secular secular mainstream.
Speaker 1:I, I, I don't really like the whole, uh, secular sacred divide, so maybe like mainstream. That's how what I use is mainstream. Um, cause I believe everything is sacred, everything is spiritual, no matter, you know, if you're singing about sex or you're singing about God, whatever it is. You know like there's a, there's a component to to music that's other Right. So, um, but yes, like at the time, it was almost like I was either like sneaking that stuff into the house and they would ask me about it. I'm like, no, these guys are Christians. And they were like squinting at me, like you know.
Speaker 1:But then, you know, I got older and then I was able to like make decisions where I was. Like you know, I want to branch out a little bit more. So I think, like you know, toward the end of high school and college, you know it's like I'm starting to absorb things back into my world from, you know, the outside, if you want to put that in quotes, and so, like at the time, you know Radiohead is important, you know Coldplay is very important, like at that point, there's a band called Appleseed Cast that was really important for me, sigur Rós, just to name a few bands sounds like you had a lot of exposure to different all kinds of musical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, yeah, and I just want to say that like, uh, um, you know, I, I I think that, uh, I am grateful to have grown up in the church. Because of the culture around music, and I think it can be a double-edged sword. I think that on some aspects of it it can be limiting. If you're talking about like, well, you shouldn't listen to this and you shouldn't listen to that. On the other hand, there's something about church music, I think, that trains you, trains us as humans, to like access the the more in life. You know that, uh, it's credited to saint augustine. He said something like to make music is to pray twice. You know that.
Speaker 1:Okay, the melody itself, the music itself is a prayer and the words are also itself is a prayer and the words are also a prayer. And I think that you know, if I want to take a like a very abstract thought on what that means. I think that music is the, in my opinion, the most powerful art form because it accesses, like the whole human. It accesses like the whole human and science tells us this that music and BPMs and stuff like they physiologically sort of tune you up. You know like it taps into your mind and your emotions and your heart and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:And so you know, if prayer is very simply like asking for help or letting your longing sort of come to the surface, whatever that longing might be, and your longing makes you more present in the now, right, like where you are, then I think Augustine's right. Like where you are, then I think Augustine's right, and I think that that's one of the cool things about music in churches is that that's an on-purpose thing. That's like I think healthy churches teach that Like, hey, we're singing these songs and they're making us more present with what's going on and with ourselves and, ultimately, with God. If you want to call, yeah, call it, call God that you know, whatever, whatever word you have for like a vehicle.
Speaker 4:It's a vehicle for all all creative people to bridge the gap between the connection of emotional it's whatever they want to hear. Like you said, with the emotion especially when we're going something that's very hard to get through Right and when we listen to music, there's something about just listening to something that can be easily relatable yeah, it alleviates all that. It's it's. It's a release, it's catharsis.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I was trying to find a good word for it and you know one of the you know, one of the questions you asked uh is like what's your mission in making art? Yeah, I think that, um, you know my mission. The reason I want to make, to make art, is to create catharsis for people. I want to make things that are like the word is ecstatic. I want to make things that connect people to that deeper reality.
Speaker 1:you know, deeper love, deeper hope, deeper peace, hope, deeper peace, and you know, that's not limited to my faith or I'm going to sing about a lot of different things and use a lot of different metaphors and, you know, lyrical content or whatever to describe my version of what that is.
Speaker 1:I happen to believe in a spiritual reality and I'm not trying to preach at people with that or try to convince them of what they need to believe, but I'm, I am, hopeful that what I make would connect people to that deeper place within themselves and the deeper place in the, the, their friendships, and then their love relationships or whatever, and for them to, to, to feel, you know, aligned, you know there's always a voice for everyone.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely it's always, always one voice for everyone. Yeah, absolutely Always, always one voice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so so for me. So for me, that's that's, that's the mission is, is that's, that's the gift, that's part of the gift that I get to offer. You know the world, and and you know for all the other artists, music makers in the world who have their thing that they bring to the conversation. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and I love music because it's a universal language. You know, and we all get to add our note to Times. Treble Clef. You know, we all get to you know if, as a music maker, it's this really unique responsibility. I feel it's a responsibility. It sounds like it's definitely a unique responsibility. I feel it's a responsibility.
Speaker 4:It's definitely a big responsibility. It feels like a responsibility.
Speaker 1:It's something I take very seriously, something I want to do well, something I want to do authentically. I want to make sure that my offering to the musical landscape is true from me and not me trying to mimic um somebody else, we don't need another michael jackson, we need there's only one queen erwin did I say your last name right when erwin yep, you got it, I have a speech impediment guys hearing loss. You're all right, you good, so that is just one question, guys, that is.
Speaker 4:that shows to you how insightful this conversation will be, but there's a lot to add.
Speaker 1:That's a really great compliment.
Speaker 4:I appreciate that no seriously, Because just like what you said about music, when people hear, listen to a conversation between two people.
Speaker 4:Sometimes when we're all caught up in our head about a certain thing, sometimes hearing from a different perspective from two people will always add value to how they can make a decision of how they feel about something, and what you said about you know bridging the gap between music and your musical influences, from your mom and your dad and your uncle, it just seems like it's culminating towards the one person that we see here today, which is quinn, or what I. I'm going to call you. Quinn from now on.
Speaker 1:No, no, no. I mean, I think it's a really, I think it's a really important thing. My job as an artist is to take my whole history and pour it into what I'm making. You know, like I was having this conversation with someone the other day where it's like you know the words one the other day, where it's like you know the words I love you, right, they seem there's very simple words and we've heard it, heard those words in a thousand songs, a million times, right, but, but it's like, but there's some songs where those three words are used and for some reason it hits us differently. And I think, like you know, sometimes in songwriting I like flip-flop between trying to like say something in a completely new way and then just being straightforward and using, in this case, let's just say that like the three words I love you. I think what makes those words different and what makes those words like hit like in a different way, is when those words are filled with my history, or those words are filled with your history, right, it's like something.
Speaker 4:That's when the magic happens you know, and when you share your history with someone who has a similar history, there's a resonation. No, no, that's what we censor. Thanks, we'll just fly off what we censored. Thanks, we'll just fly off the handle. Yeah, yeah yeah, have you heard of the song? Dean Lewis. How do I say goodbye?
Speaker 1:I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah, get you.
Speaker 4:I recently lost my grandma this last year.
Speaker 1:Dude, I'm so sorry man. I've lost grandparents, grandparents myself. It's, it's devastating.
Speaker 4:Especially, I assume you were close to your grandmother she was the one who raised me when my hearing loss, when my parents uh had to. You know, work on their career? Yeah and I what you said about this simple words and then I think about that song. How can I, how do I say goodbye by dean lewis? You know, goodbye on its own seems like every you know. Every day you walk out the door say, hey, goodbye, guys, I'll see you later.
Speaker 1:But when you have, the history of that's filled with loss yeah and there's a, there's a whole world in our words and, and, yes, and, if you, if you know someone, and, and, and you know their story, their, their context or whatever when they say the words, if you, if you know their world and the world, their world is in the words and it and yeah, yeah, uh, and I hope I know for me as an artist, that that's what I'm hoping to show people with what I write. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think that, like, like you said, if I'm doing the job well, then all of a sudden there's other people that can resonate with, with, with my story. And, and that's when there's a reciprocal thing happening.
Speaker 4:You know, like all of a sudden, like we heal each other in a way right and and that goes in hand with your mission, uh to make people feel seen, seen, heard yes, absolutely but using music as a vehicle to do that, it's just, and that's why it's one of the greatest art form I love what you just said to make people feel seen and heard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want, I want people to feel known, I want them to, uh, I think my, as far as like my music, you know, or my art, whatever I'm making, because, honestly, um, I don't know if you know this, but visual art was my first love before music. Yeah, so I spent some time like as in, like illustrating and drawing, and then eventually that led into a little bit of right graphic design and and uh.
Speaker 1:So that definitely influences, like what I make with art and and I also want to say, like I love what you said about, um, hearing other people's perspectives, and I would add, especially if they if it's coming from a different medium. I love to talk to filmmakers and I love to talk to photographers and I love to talk to, like you know, mixed media artists or whatever, because their processes, listening to the way that they process what they're making. It helps me a lot like reframe what I do. Sometimes it gives me a different angle, a different tool to try. So I think it's really vital. So I'm like really grateful for my background and other things too.
Speaker 1:But but I think, as far as my music, you know, I think, like the big word for me is joy is, I think, like like I, I, I think that what, what I intend to do ultimately, is to bring joy and joy to me, is different than happiness. Happiness, I think, is a very temporal thing. It's very like an itch that you need to scratch. Or joy has got like this it's a constant feeling, it's a constant. It's a constant feeling, it's a constant, it's a power, it's a it's it's. You know, joy and grief are our friends, you know. And I say that something that helps me out because, because at my unhealthiest I like to distract myself from the hard feelings. Right, I have to like, choose to to dig into the hard stuff, and so I say the depth of my grief is the depth of my joy.
Speaker 1:And so the more that I tend to the hard stuff in my life, it makes my joy more substantial. Like it's, the substance of my joy is more powerful, more real, more felt, not only by me but, I think, others too.
Speaker 4:I want to add on to that. Come on man, come on Keno. I want to add on to that by saying that there's something also beautiful about the music that we share. You know, when we talk about the negative stuff, we have to shield two people. It's already up and we're already prepared to say the pr version of what we want to say yeah, yeah, but with music when we, when we're on our own, we just let those all all that down and being able to just be yeah everything the grief the sadness and just letting that um meant, uh, blend together with yeah, here yeah, I think absolutely healing right there.
Speaker 1:I think you're right. I think like, for a lot of us, the art that we love the most especially music is the music where we felt like the person really lived what they were singing about and they were able to go there. They were able to be fully vulnerable in a way that feels, um, like like they really put their heart on the table yeah you know, and and I think that when we find those artists, like you said, it's almost like they they give us the words for our own experiences. There we go sorry was that it?
Speaker 4:was that it no? No, I'm sorry. I love what that it was, because yeah oftentimes we have emotions that we just cannot find the words right, and then when they finally do it, that's like almost a responsibility and a power. Yeah, and a gift, yeah and shit.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry I'm going to censor this part.
Speaker 1:I'm into it, keno, I'm into it, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I think my responsibility, and I think it's every artist's responsibility, is to be able to communicate about the real stuff from their authentic place and from their superpower, if you want to put that in quotes.
Speaker 1:So it's like there's certain things that I am not going to be the best at writing about, I'm just not going to be, and I could try to mimic it all day long, but you wouldn't believe it. Could try to mimic it all day long, but you wouldn't believe it. So you know, I have to find my lane and and I allow that lane to be full of of me and my, my experience and my um wrestling matches and my thoughts and and stuff, and I think that that's I think people, and I think that that's I think people. When I'm doing that as an artist, that's when I think that people are able to identify or see me, yeah, and when you can be seen as an artist, that means that I think that that's when people like, gravitate toward what you're making. It's because, all of a sudden, your voice as an artist is the most distinct. It's going to be.
Speaker 4:It just punches to the nose of everything that just seems to be generic and doesn't have a meaningful meaning.
Speaker 1:That's right. And I think, like it takes a long time as an artist to shed your influences. I think, like, like you know the bands or the artists that have influenced me the most, I'm grateful for them. You know the bands or the artists that have influenced me the most, I'm grateful for them. The whole reason that they became the anchors to me is because I felt like they represented me. They were, they were my character in the world.
Speaker 1:I could look at, you know, chris Martin, and be like that guy is me, like like that's, that's you know, like the way he feels about the world, you know, and I, you know. I remember where I was when I heard yellow the first time. I remember listening to their first record record parachutes. I was like I, I, I. I was like an out of body experience Cause it was like for the first time. It was like I don't know. At the time I was like I don't know what this guy is doing, but I feel like he's like the soundtrack in my head. It's like all the words he's using, the way those words feel. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I've had similar experiences with other writers and artists where it's like that guy is me or that girl is me, and artists where it's like that guy is me or that girl is me, Like, and I think that the reason why those people were are more recognizable is because they're fully embodied. It's like somehow they hit that vein in themselves where, like it's the most them, they could be you tracking with me on that, yeah shedding it's, it's like.
Speaker 1:It's like I've shed all my influences. I've shed like who you think I sound like yeah, and I just sound like me now.
Speaker 1:Now I needed to go, I needed to like all the great art, the masters or whatever you know like a lot of people don't know this, picasso was one of the greatest portraiture artists in the world before he birthed what cubism or whatever movement he did, and so he was obviously studying other masters, learning their techniques, became the best at it, and then he broke the rules. So I think it's a good metaphor for what it is to find your voice as an artist is that you have to trace the steps. You have to live in the house of the artists that you're drawn to or respect. You learn how they make things and then you start to like riff off of that in your own way. So I fully expect, when people listen to what I make, to identify the camp or the stream that I come from, but eventually what they should hear is me. You know, okay, I hope I'm not jumping ahead, by the way. No, no, you're good. No, no, no, no, no we haven't even gotten past it. I remember you've already got, we got.
Speaker 4:No, no, I'm serious, those are great answers, okay, cool. And I wanted to add on that, by the way, which is that um, now disclaimer, I'm not, I'm not, um, I'm not as well versed into the religion okay oh, okay, we're gonna talk about that. Okay, what I? What?
Speaker 4:I heard is that I've always heard that people say that not, not, nothing comes from something whatever. That is, yeah, using that as an analogy. Uh, we started out as nothing and then, when we have influences, we take something and then, once you shut them, it come. What it may look like at the beginning was just a copy version, copycat version of what we love, and then it takes time to really just shed all of them to become something new, and that's hard. That's even harder to do, I would imagine as an artist and all different forms of media, it becomes harder to do that when everything else just already a copycat version of one thing or other, and when you finally just like what you said with Coldplay, to finally get to that point of being able to just be you it's.
Speaker 4:Do you feel like you reached up at that point yet, or are you still shedding um your influences in your 10-year journey as an artist?
Speaker 1:I feel like what I'm doing with my band, saint social, is the closest that I've got okay got gotten to it, yeah, and, and I mean um, and that's not to say that things in the past aren't aren't um there either yeah, but I think that, um, right now, I think that my voice sounds the best.
Speaker 1:I feel like my emotion, my emotions and my history are are lining up with what I'm writing, more than ever, um, the way I'm singing it more than ever, and like I really think I'm making something distinct. And you know, um, when it comes to, like, my band, saint social, uh, we're about to release our record this year, our debut record. Yay, uh, dude, we're, we're unbelievably like chomping at the bit to get this thing out yeah I, I'm really proud of it.
Speaker 1:I think like it's like one of the best first things I've ever made. But I would say that I think that the voice of Saint Social if I'm to look at the band as like it's own animal I think that it will be more defined by record too, and the reason why that I think that happens is because, like you know, it's kind of like you have to make something, you have to do something, you have to have like a. This is not the record's, not a rough draft.
Speaker 1:So don't don't get me wrong right you have to make a rough draft to like.
Speaker 1:Look at the parts of it that could be better right or look at the parts you want to expound on and and like dial up more. And so I think for a lot of bands, and including mine, this, this first record, while it is a very, in my opinion, unique, I feel like it's it's unique in that, um, I feel like, like I said, I'm being the truest version of myself. This is the band I've always wanted to be in with the people. I want to, you know, be in it with um. This is my writing voice, you know doing, I think you know what it needs to do right now.
Speaker 1:But I think that once we have time to live with the record and and see, like, what other people feel about it, we get to like almost become like a third party, like objective, it's almost like. It's almost like in the making of the music, it it becomes, it has its own life, you know. So we get to see what this, this kid, you know like what we could dial up about this kid, what we could zone in on and be like, ah, I think we need more songs like that. Or man, I really want to explore this tone more. Or man, I really want to explore this topic more. And so I don't know that every artist is like that. That's just my thing.
Speaker 4:I want to be able to step back, enjoy what it is Step back, enjoy what it is and then say I think, if I did this and this, next time, this will make the voice of what this is like even better. Even album, every song you put out is, in a way, amplifying the parts that you want to improve, so that when you step back, Saint. Social on its own. It's already becoming closer to the band that you have in mind Out of the gate.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I've been at this a long time, yeah, you know, and I think that with this band I took all the lessons that I've learned over the course of my career in music and not that I'm skipping steps, but I'm like applying everything I learned to this new thing with some really great friends and people that I have like very deep history with, you know. So there's something special about that.
Speaker 4:There's chemistry in this band that comes from like a very deep knowing you know, and with that you will be able to create the songs that actually connect with them. Because all the hard work that you put into that yeah, it just. Well giving a baby to the world, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you know, saints Social is not me. You know, like the music I'm making with Saints Social is like about what I've been through in the last couple of years.
Speaker 1:So it's personal, it's taking all of my influences, right. It's taking all of my influences right, but, like me coming from a certain stream, but it's fully me embodying the music that, my version of it, my riff off of it, right, and it's also, you know, four guys making music that feels like where we live. You know, we wanted to make music that, like, filled a gap in our community, uh, a sound that was missing, a sound. That was something that we were into and we wanted, um, our take on that sound to have the flavor of the Gulf coast, you know. And so, like I was very intentional, you know we were very intentional as we were working on the music to make sure that it did those things.
Speaker 1:So like now that that it's done, it's like we get to step back and be like man. That's, it's awesome. It does all those things it like down to the the letter man. That's, it's awesome. It does all those things it like down to the letter man. You know like the words I'm using feel like here. You know I'm using particular images. I'm pulling images from. You know that I see in my everyday life, living where I live, and I think that that's another part of what makes it distinct. It's not me living you know where I live and trying to write like I live in New York City. You understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:It's like Trying to pretend that you have these experiences that aren't even in your city. Yeah or you haven't lived it.
Speaker 1:You haven't lived a life right right to your music or or just even like um, you know, there's things that a band in new york city can sing about because of the, the people groups that live there, or the, the landscape and the, you know the geography of the place. Um, you know, like, maybe you can, you can get away with, uh, being a little bit more abstract or art, like art scene away, or like yeah just even like the sound of the music, like you know what I think of new york.
Speaker 1:I think of like, uh, the strokes, or, you know, right now, bleachers.
Speaker 1:I think of bleachers a lot, um, even though he's from new jersey. Uh, you know, I I think of, like the national is one of my favorite bands that I love, that are have a deep connection to new york city. There's things that they can sing about and music that they can make that feels very like true to true to that place, built into the fabric of that place, whereas, like you know, the music that we're making is clearly coming from a certain stream of music that we gravitate toward.
Speaker 1:But it's, you know, run through the lens of living here, like, like the killers. I love the killers, we all love the killers. In our band, um brandon flowers talks about how like the killers is. Is bruce springsteen through the the strip in las vegas, you know so. When you listen to the killer's music it's like you can hear the obvious like tip of the hat to the those. You know, the bosses stream, but it's. But it also feels like las vegas.
Speaker 1:It's like they dialed certain things up a little bit more to give it their version, their flavor their riff off of it yeah so, you know, I, I the guys and I wanted to do that in our way and and for it to feel, for our music to feel like, uh, there's connecting points in our music that I think like people will enjoy if they like certain bands, but we wanted to make something that was all us. So I think I think that I think we did it. I think we did it.
Speaker 4:Time will tell when can people expect that album to drop, though?
Speaker 1:it'll come out in august. The full record will come out in august. We're going to be releasing a couple singles and an ep all throughout the year and those um the the first, the first single that will come out in uh, march, stay tuned, guys.
Speaker 4:Um, and do you have a discount code? Because h&r 30, if you won that, we can get you 30% off. Use h&r, hit record 30% up. I'm joking, that's cool, man.
Speaker 1:I mean hey, no, no, no that's wow, but yeah um, yeah, so we're gonna be releasing damn pieces and parts of it through the year. And um man the other.
Speaker 1:The other thing is like we've been playing these songs now for a couple years yeah so, like a lot of our connection and socials, while being very small, is still still very rooted and grounded in where we are. Those are real people that are following us and that we've built up over the course of the past few years playing these songs and beginning to share them from that vantage point too. So the hope is that when we finally release this stuff, that people are ready for it, that the people that we're in front of are ready for it and hopefully that spreads around.
Speaker 1:There's more people who hear it, because people love it and want to share it.
Speaker 4:Okay, we're going to take a two minute break and then I'll get you a full glass of water. Okay, great. Also one more thing, guys. If you don't know about St Joshua, they were playing around here, especially the Gulf Coast event. I forget the name of that place, the event, it was the Gulf Coast at the stadium church thingy.
Speaker 1:Are you talking about Golf Fest?
Speaker 4:Yes, Golf Fest. That's how I.
Speaker 1:That's how we met.
Speaker 4:Yes, that's how I met and between outside of that and also we've had conversations before and I got to say, quinn, I'm really proud of the transformation and the growth that. Oh thanks, man. Seriously, that's Y'all. Don't know what I saw. It's fucking awesome. No, seriously, I'm really proud of you.
Speaker 1:Thanks, man. Thank you, that means a lot to me, man. Okay, I think you're the bees knees too. I said, I think you're the bees knees too.
Speaker 4:Bees knees yeah, it's a it's a idiom.
Speaker 1:It means I think you're awesome.
Speaker 4:I learned something today Bees, knees, bees, knees, bee's knees and record. Okay, welcome back guys. We just took a quick break. As you can see, he has coffee. What kind of coffee do we get? I do not know, so your dad said something about.
Speaker 1:I don't think this is hazelnut, so I mean it's good, though we probably packed it all away. It's black, it's black coffee, it's good. It's good for me. Coffee makes him sleep, coffee, at this point, I mean, I think it helps me. It doesn't have like a negative effect on me.
Speaker 4:Fair, it's just I'm kind of jealous of people that can drink it and not get sleepy. I don't know why that's weird dude.
Speaker 1:I have never heard that in my life. It's like I have never heard of anyone drinking coffee and feeling sleepy.
Speaker 4:Really, yes, when there was a drive that I had to, I think it was, I think, all the way to Jacksonville during Christmas, my girlfriend told me to get the Starbucks latte, something latte. I finish it. I'm already starting to feel woozy. Hmm, my body ate meat for caffeine, apparently, apparently, man, okay, okay, diving right back into this video. I hope you're enjoying this. If you are, don't forget to follow the socials. It's literally on the description below. And where can people find you?
Speaker 1:Well, you can find my band at at Saint Social Official most places, and you can find me pretty much anywhere at Quinn Irwin Q-U-I-N-N. Is it like Facebook?
Speaker 4:X.
Speaker 1:E-R-W-I-N.
Speaker 4:Yeah, on all the places Tumblr.
Speaker 1:You know what man I was on Tumblr once. Actually, my website is currently handled by Tumblr. What. My Quinn Irwin dot com, or whatever it is, is I didn't even on tumblr. Yeah, I didn't even notice that, I just click on the link well, I mean, it's not, it's not a tumblr link, it's so like you know it's, but the company owns.
Speaker 2:No, it doesn't know, it hosts it, I guess okay, tumblr still around I did not know that I did not know that okay, tumblr, more proud to you, man.
Speaker 4:Okay, all right, so you ready, let's do it. Balancing between a music career and fatherhood is challenging.
Speaker 1:Walk us through your experience as a father, and how has that influenced your music from a creative perspective and how you managed to um, you know balance both of those responsibilities I think the the biggest thing I would say to start talking about that is what was really interesting and and I think this is a pretty common experience for a lot of people okay is is when you get married or you decide to, like you know, partner up with somebody, sometimes people will say like um, oh, your life's gonna change, you know everything's gonna be different now. And it sounds like so ominous, like like you know, like you know the, the phrase, like, oh, this is my ball and chain, you know, and.
Speaker 1:And then you like get into the the mix with your significant other in this case my wife and it's like this is awesome and I think it's awesome that it's a lot of hard work right right, but it's awesome because we choose to make it awesome.
Speaker 1:We, we don't. We don't allow the the partnership to take away from the life we want to live. You know, we don't let the partnership to take away from, like, our individual goals or dreams. Right, and you find a way to like, bring those things together. I think likewise, when you're about to have kids, people are like, oh man, everything's about to change. You know, and the approach that my wife and I took when we had kids was like we don't want to think about it like that. We want our kids to be part of the adventure, we want our kids to be part of the good things in life, and just because they're around, it doesn't need to take away from our individual dreams and goals. And so how does everybody win and what I mean by that is like not only me but my wife and our kids how do we blend all of our you know aspirations and the stuff we're good at into the fabric of family? Right.
Speaker 1:Right. So, that being said, as an artist, you know, my kids are not a hindrance to my art, they're not an obstacle, they're not in opposition to what I'm making. They're not, you know, like, and very frankly, my kids have opinions about what I make. I show them my songs. Like there's a song that I'm not done with that they keep begging me to finish. You know, it's not out yet. And it probably won't be out for a while. Right.
Speaker 1:But they're like mad at me because they love it so much. They're like dad, is this on spotify? Yet you know like they're talking to me about this all the time um, my all my kids so far are somehow like musically inclined. It hasn't like materialized into sort of like a discipline to to learn how to play an instrument. Yes.
Speaker 1:But they're constantly singing their own songs and writing their own stuff and then I've tried to take the time to record with them. I don't do it nearly as much as I would like to or should, but sometimes I'll be like all right, let's work on your song. You know, like my daughter, you know like there have been days where, like I'd like get on to her about something. Yeah, and like I was right, I mean I needed to do that as a dad. She's like okay, dad.
Speaker 1:And she would like go in her room, close the the door, and she'd be like, and I was feeling sad, you know like she starts like singing hers, like her feelings out, man, you know so, it's like you know so, so, like you know, in that way, there's this, this really cool, like, like a reciprocal, synergistic thing.
Speaker 1:You know, like I love helping them discover new music and I love like talking to them about it. They have a playlist, each of them have a playlist, and I'll like listen to something and like, dad, will you put that on my playlist, you know, and so I'll go and I'll feed it to them that way. And you know, my dad was a little tough on me as far as, like me wanting to learn something, um, and he eventually came around, so I want to give him a little credit. It wasn't all bad, but like I, I really I don't. If my kids are interested in something, that I want to feed that interest and I want to like make it easy for them to have access. But, uh, but I also know like that the reason why I'm here today as a musician is because I was like, fiercely curious and driven to like, you know, make my materialize, my ideas. You know, know, like, um, when I was 15, uh, I would like, uh, hang out. I I one part of my chores was I washed dishes. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I do the same washing dishes. Well, and I don't know about you, but I feel like, um, doing menial tasks is actually like a huge part of my creative process, because because I'm doing something that lets my brain like, imagine or go free, so I get a lot of great ideas doing that especially when you're always in a spot where you try to think of a good idea and nothing comes out.
Speaker 4:it just, it just so happens to me the minute we walk away and do something else. Dude, I didn't realize how powerful washing dishes are Imagine that. Oh my gosh, that's a great idea.
Speaker 1:To me it's like a spiritual practice. I make it a practice of presence. I'm here, I'm washing the dishes. I'm being present in this moment as I'm scrubbing or sliding it in the dishwasher, but I'm also being present with my mind and letting my mind have the freedom to like work on things yeah so 15.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm like, yeah, I'm doing this chore that I was forced to do or whatever, yeah, but it actually, oddly enough, like generated ideas and and so I had a lot of friends who were starting to get in bands yeah and frequented like a coffee shop in in the community I grew up in at that time.
Speaker 1:So I saw my friends like getting guitars and stuff and I started getting a little jealous because it was like they're all getting in bands like I want to do that. Well, just so happened, my dad was cleaning out the attic and he had this old, like beat up guitar that he was gonna throw away and I stole it. Oh no, I brought it back to my. I brought it back to my room and had this mel bay songbook and I had like these you know charts for some guy named bob dylan, these weirdos named Simon and Garfunkel yeah, shout out, because Bob Dylan and Simon and Garfunkel are amazing.
Speaker 1:But I didn't have a reference point for that. But I was so determined that I was playing on an out-of-tune guitar and I just kept going and and then eventually my dad and my stepmom they bought me my first guitar and so that. So then all of a sudden I was able to like take that and hang out with my friends and learning chords from them and and the cool thing was, like none of my friends and I and or me like none of us, uh, wanted to learn everybody else's songs, we wanted to write our own stuff, right. So there was already, like very, very early on, like a writing culture and um, and so that I mean that that's how so.
Speaker 1:So anyway, that being said, you know, kudos to my dad. You know sometimes he made it hard to get to the coffee shop, you know. But but I got there and and that space sort of helped me as a kid grow into what I am now. So as a dad I want to feel that interest in my kids if they're interested, and then, and then I mean, mean, dude, like your whole life is fodder for what you're making yeah so you know, the, the experiences that I share with them, or the things about them that spark my imagination, inevitably find, find the way into my songs somehow.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir keno all right.
Speaker 4:Going back to the early conversation we had, uh, where you mentioned about how the influences that you gather from your mom and your dad and your uncle, um, how do you see that when, when it comes to your uh children, um, with being influenced by other music? What? Are your take, what's your take on that? Because you know, music nowadays are no, the source material is just not nice to listen to. So as a father and especially the fact that when they have interest in music?
Speaker 4:how do you see? Uh, how do you want to go about that?
Speaker 1:so you know, uh, I think that as a parent, my my job Does that make sense. Yeah, I know what you're asking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get it, you know, I think, like older generations of parents, like they, when you're born, like you know, I think, parents in the past, you know, I think at first you know first the kid existed for the parent and then the parent would do their best to mold the kid into another version of themselves. Okay, that make sense Tracking so far. But I heard recently I can't remember who to give credit to about this. I can't remember if it was a psychologist or teacher or whatever. This I can't remember psychologist or teacher or whatever.
Speaker 1:But, um, this person said when your kids are born, they are who they are. You get what you get. Your job is not to shape them into yourself. Your job is to cultivate the space for them to become the best version of who they are, what they are, and so bars. So so what I would say is, like, when it comes to musical taste and stuff like that, um, I spend a lot of time like getting to know my kids and knowing what they can handle, right, okay, and I don't judge other parents for like what they let their kids listen to or whether you know, do or do not, but, like I, I feel like there's certain things that my kids are just aren't ready for, not because, uh, I have an aversion to it. As much as I know my kids, I know where they're kind of like at in their yeah journey of growing up right so.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of the thing is, like I'm the one introducing them to music, I'm seeing, like, what their tastes are and I'm paying attention to what they're into. Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, like I can kind of tell you, you know what my daughter is into and what my son is into, the the older ones, because they they're the ones who have more opinions than the younger ones. So like, for example, my daughter all of a sudden loves country, so, but I've introduced her to specific artists and I'd even say that, like, out of those artists, I've only introduced her to specific songs. Right.
Speaker 1:Because, like she's not, I don't think she's ready for all of the songs, you know. Then, like she's also, she loves Paramore, and I love Paramore, oh my God, best man ever. And I love paramore, oh my god, best man ever freaking love, paramore, love that yeah you know, but like I don't know that she's ready for all the paramore songs, so I kind of like field, like which ones I think she's she's ready for why not let them find their own way?
Speaker 4:like, yes, you can guide them, but there's also something about, uh, like when, how? My parents, but everything that they don't? They just said their motto is this we'll guide you as best we can right, but how you make your decision, and whatever you do will let you learn from your own experience and how you interpret that so yeah and that um it's kind of the same thing, I mean my daughter's 11 right and, and my next oldest is eight, he'll turn nine in the summer.
Speaker 1:And so it's like to me, it's like a slow release oh catharsis, it's a slow release of them slowly carrying more weight of the responsibility of their own experiences right, okay.
Speaker 1:of the responsibility of their own experiences, right, okay, so like that's why, like you know what you know, in a couple years my daughter will listen to all the record, the Paramore records, you know. However, she wants to listen to them. She'll probably listen to more of Kacey Musgraves stuff, because she's really into Kacey Musgraves, and I'm sure, like our conversations will also change, you know about that stuff, stuff, because I want to be as a parent, I want to be involved in what she thinks and what she's feeling and how she processes it. But there are certain conversations that my wife and I we sense that she's not ready for and we're not ready for. And so you know, we have the, you know I think the responsibility is her parents to like guide that process and and so now again, I'm talking about my kid, you know so like, but if I'm in a situation with, and it's like, it's like another parent, you know, like there's, you know, parents that probably listen, you know, let their kids listen to all kinds of explicit stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, that's not for me to judge. You know what are their lives like. You know what, what do they see every day? You know like I, you know I, I do and have taught kids that you know come from a rougher you know rougher Upbringing Upper upbringing rougher you know rougher Upbringing. Upbringing so, like their filters and their understanding, is different than what my kids are experiencing on the daily. So that might mean, you know, the music that they consume is going to be different for them. You know they have more of a grid for things, right.
Speaker 1:And the music probably reflects on yeah, so so yeah, so you know I'm I'm not trying to over protect my kid. I want like I don't, I don't want my kids to be like shell shocked or or whatever, but I but I do want to like be really present with them and and what their daily reality is and what the soundtrack of that reality is, and so slowly want to reveal those things or slowly want to give them the chance to get their legs under them with what music talks about. Also, my daughter loves Spice Girls. Right, yeah, she has no idea what Ziggy Zagat is, but it's a cool word. That's the first time I've heard it too. I'm just saying Shout out to everybody who loves Spice Girls and know what that word means. It's not time for us to talk about that. She's getting closer to the age where we need to talk to her about that.
Speaker 4:It seems to me that the reason why there are certain things that haven't been talked about is that they're not at the place at their current age. It sounds like there's a time and place where you know that when they reach that, they'll have a much better understanding of that specific yeah, though I think I think the the object is like them having the maturity to be able to handle the weight of what they're listening to you still don't have that in the beginning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I agree, I love you know like I like, I love uh kendrick Lamar's To Pimp a Butterfly. I think he's a genius and I think that record it's genius, but I'm old enough to sit and listen to it and understand something about what he's talking about. I haven't lived his experience and there's certain aspects of it that I I can't empathize with. But, um, but I can. I can listen to what he's communicating and I can um feel, you know uh, what he. I can um absorb, um what he wants us to feel about his experience living his life you know what I'm saying yeah like, but like and and for him.
Speaker 1:you know, that record is all about like, uh, becoming famous and and also like, from what I understand, the the title, to pimp the butterflies. How are you going to sell something that's already free, right Again, brilliant, and so like the racial ramifications of you know him being at the level he is doing what he's doing. That's what I take from it, so, but that's something that I can digest at my age and my you know my place in life and I'm sure there's a lot of people that come from compton or you know where he's from that are going to be able to listen, yeah, from lots of different age ranges that have his experience right where they're, like, ready for it, um, but I don't think that everybody's ready for that, you know, um, I, I, my kids, aren't ready to to that yet, but they will be.
Speaker 4:And I think when they reach that, they'll be able to understand the value of listening to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want my kids to be at some point ready to listen and read all kinds of stuff, man, and watch all kinds of things and have incredible, have like incredible conversations and like pick things apart.
Speaker 1:You know I don't I'm not a prude, you know I'm not. I'm not gonna like, um, protect them to the point that they're not like they don't understand that there's a whole wild world out here, right, but I at least want to give them a good head start to to slowly integrate. You know, in some ways, in some ways in my life, I feel like I was a little bit of a late bloomer. There's things that I had to like catch up on. You know, cause there was like a a gap in my life where, like things were so delayed from like what I was able to consume, just because my parents were fielding things more, had stricter rules, which that's their choice. I get it, um, but it did, and in some ways that was great for me. Some ways that was great for me because there were some also some years, uh, where I learned things way too fast and that might not.
Speaker 1:I wasn't ready for it. I don't think, and you know it just is what it is. So I don't know. I think I want to define like the balance in my life with my kids. So, as far as being an artist, you know, like it's. It can be a tension between some things that I want to write about versus, like you know, do I need to filter for my kids sake, because once you make something as an artist, it's out there.
Speaker 1:Your kids are going to find it one day Right, and so there's sort of like a sense of responsibility, of like, do I need to make something unfiltered because I'm just need to do it and maybe I don't necessarily share that with my kids yet, or do I make things in an authentic way that brings in everybody, including my kids? Yeah they can experience it and take it in do you understand what I'm? Do you understand what I'm saying there?
Speaker 1:yeah so they're. I think, like every artist approaches that differently, every artist decides how they're going to make something, whether that's like completely unfiltered about their lives, or whether they, um, whether they keep their families or loved ones in in mind and try to compassionately, graciously, create things. I think there's a to honor, to honor. You know the relationship.
Speaker 4:I think there's also another way, which is that you can still put that out there. I think there's also another way, which is that you can still put that out there. That seems to be more not as much as you would like to share, but there's still a value in being able to tell them from behind the scenes, to share to them, because you have that one part that not everyone will get, which is that you share? The story behind the song with your kids and your family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, once they fully grasp that, the whole view that they have on that song that you just put out right, it comes completely different well, you know, and I think like it's possible, and I just had this thought that that, um, you know, like I don't have, I personally don't have any anything explicit out there yeah but that's not to say I won't one day, you know, but just like I curate or slowly share other people, revealing more of my heartache to them and as I'm teaching them that, hey, that you're not responsible for this, but this is my journey and this is what you can learn from it, right?
Speaker 1:So I think, like it, it works with the way I create and it works with what I show them of what I'm making. You know, I I don't know, that's just. That's just how it works for me and my family.
Speaker 4:You know, like other people probably have a different way of looking at it, I just had a thought I think what you're doing at one one of these days, when you know when we're not around, but your kids are going to find your music, I think one thing you have as an advantage as a parent and as a musician in my perspective, because I don't have parenting experience, but the songs that you put out, especially the ones that you know that's going to help them one day, it's like another extension of being a parent, where if they one day, I'm sure I would imagine there have been cases where they will have an argument with you and it's hard to express it.
Speaker 4:But when they calm down and, going back to what we said earlier, when we find the music and they want to hear your dad, their dad's voice, and it's talking about what they're going through- yeah they finally opened up themselves to listen that song it becomes another instant connection. Yeah, it's like they're connecting to you through your songs, especially when we're not around. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Oh man, yeah, I love it's like a gift right there. It really is. Yeah, no, I think that's maybe part of you know. I think there's like the on purpose part of why I write the way I write. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But then there's like the part of it that's like spiritual maybe, like it's prophetic, like in a sense of like what you're saying is like, when I'm gone, my music will still be here, yes, singing about my view of the world. Um, the, the words that I'm trying to convey, about like taking the hard things and like the paradox of of finding light in the dark places, right, like, of course, I'd want that to speak to my kids because inevitably they're going to go through. I want that to speak to my kids because inevitably they're going to go through hard times and I would want them to know that their dad went through hard times and that I had to sing my way out of the trench and maybe my words will be there for them in that way.
Speaker 4:It'll be like a marching hymn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, Like, what an incredible legacy right, Like that. Of course I'm not just writing for me, Of course I'm writing something that hopefully my kids will be proud of. You know you know they might. They might eventually like you know I. You know you know they might. They might eventually like you know I.
Speaker 1:You know, if you like uh, listen to, like uh, other musicians and artists talk about their kids and about like, whether their kids like like their music or whatever. And you know, like I'm never gonna like twist my kids arms to like what I do, to like what I make. You know, Um, I feel really lucky right now that they're into it. You know, and I don't take that lightly, I don't, I'm like man, I'm trying to soak this up as much as I can.
Speaker 1:You know, like you know, I think part also part of like uh, what I'm doing in terms of like my goals and my successes is is I'm modeling something for them, that that it is possible to have a dream and to find success with that dream. And they're watching me, and my wife too and her ways like choose a life and work, work hard for it and and gain the, the fruits of our labor for it right and um, before before my kids, uh, I, I I dove into music because I was teaching I was a you know, high school english teacher and it was like I, I was teaching my students one day and at the time these are kids that were in FEMA trailers still the what FEMA trailers, because we all lived in Biloxi, Mississippi. Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:So it was like Hurricane, katrina, okay, so the whole world around us was shattered to hell, you know. And so here I am at the front of class, um, teaching ninth graders, and I'm just like, hey, listen, you know, you want to make your world a better place. You got to do the things that make you come alive. You got to do the things that you're passionate about. And as I'm saying that, it's like I'm like prophesying to myself. I'm like I'm like speaking to me, you know, and and for me, that that internal dialogue, you know it goes to God or whatever. And I'm just like hearing, you're right. And I'm like, what are you talking about? You know like I'm here teaching, this is, this is my calling, right. And it's like man, you go to bed thinking about music. You wake up thinking about music. Go, show them how to do it. It's your turn. And, dude, that was kind of like the green light for me. It was like I love these kids and I want to show them what that looks like and I need to do it for me too.
Speaker 1:And so, from that point on, I was in and out of the classroom while pursuing music. And then, you know, I, I was able to, I was able to get some things done, you know, and, and some things happened for me and, um, it's humbling and beautiful. And so it started with my, my students. I wanted to show them like, hey, you can do this, do whatever, whatever you can imagine, you put in this sweat, you, you lean into your, your talents and your gifts and you, you know, uh, lean into these things that make you come alive, that you're passionate about. So so, of course, of course, I want to show my kids, my own kids, how to do that, and yeah and and um and I want them whatever it is like.
Speaker 1:it doesn't have to be music, it's like whatever they love to do. I want to be their biggest cheerleader, along with my wife. We want to be the ones who are like go get it. Like go get it, man. You know you're awesome, like you know high value in our family on cheering each other on and supporting each other and and um, and so that's reciprocal right yeah that they do the same with with us, and I'm, and I'm, an adult, you know.
Speaker 1:So, like you know, my dream one day is to be on a big stage and and look over and you see them and see them.
Speaker 3:It's like you know, wink you know whatever, wink, you know whatever.
Speaker 1:Like hey, it's, it's almost like, uh, as cool as it is for me to get to do it as much as I want to do it, it's also like me saying you got, you can do this. You got it. Whatever it is, you know, um, I need to succeed. So they succeed, you know, you know. So it. That's kind of part of I think, for me, being a dad, being an artist, is that it's not. I don't think for me it doesn't feel like undue pressure or it doesn't feel like a heavy responsibility. Like I got it, I got to make it happen so that you know, I take care of everybody, you know it's not no, it's like.
Speaker 1:It's like man, I want to do this because, because, like, I want to show them that they can and and do, I want them to be proud of me. Yeah, man, of course I want them to, you know. But, like, the other thing is, I don't want to be an amazing artist and a shitty dad, you know, like I want to be a very present dad. I want to be like a really loving, aware, like into my kids kind of dad and I think that you know I'm doing the best I can, you know, to be to, to be that for them. I'm I'm imperfect at it, but I think, like me investing in their interests and us talking about things, you know me asking them questions about my songs, like I asked them what they think. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, so they and they, they're savage man. They will tell me, you know. But like you know, like we'll bounce from that and then like we'll go to Voltron, you know, like right now we are binging Voltron on Netflix. Okay, so that's like a thing that we do.
Speaker 4:I got to say it's the thing that you're doing that's really inspiring and I'm sure it will be very inspiring to other people to hear. Is that what I think you? The songs that you create for them. You know, okay, Blending it. You're a teacher, you want to educate. Now you have a song that you want to create that will almost give you the exact same feeling when you listen to yellow by Copeland for the first time.
Speaker 4:And then now you have kids and now you have this desire for the legacy that you want to leave behind Sure, and now you have this desire for the legacy that you want to leave behind Sure for everyone else, but especially for your kids. Yeah, I think you're going to find your own yellow song and then when they listen to it, they'll feel like they can carry that along with them no matter what stage they are in yeah, because you know what they're listening to? They're listening to their dad's voice guiding them along the hard times.
Speaker 1:And one more thing.
Speaker 4:The lessons that you leave behind in how you make the songs for them to listen to. I don't know, because I'm not a parent, nor will I ever become one. Not sure Debatable, but I would like to think it's the same. Okay, it's the same way that my grandmother left me a planner. She knows that I'm not as well-versed in religion, but she did leave me a letter, or not letter? It's a book of all the prayers that are related to you.
Speaker 4:know, you have pride, you have difficulty sliding go, death loss and so on and I think it will be the same way for you with the albums, when they find your songs, when they listen to it. Yeah, that's I think, no matter where you are yeah don't know that they have a cheerleader right in their ears just telling them what to do, man.
Speaker 1:That's a that's a really beautiful thought and I hope so, and I hope that, as a parent, that I've loved them well, so that when they hear my songs that they remember me loving them well in everyday life, so that those songs carry more weight. I would hate it if, like and man, I'm going to make mistakes as parents we do. I don't want to think about the day my kids have to come to me and be like Dad. You know that one time that you did X, y, z, it really hurt.
Speaker 1:I mean, you almost kind of like I have to be prepared for that you know, and and I hope that when that day comes that I'll be able to to say I'm sorry, and and we can grow. We can grow toward each other in that moment, you know. But I hope that that my songs carry more weight for them because of the, of the way I love them in the, in the, in the day-to-day. So, again, imperfect with that, but I'm, you know, I'm working on that. But, yes, man, what a beautiful thought to like be the soundtrack for their lives oh, my god, that's a great summarization of ever doing this.
Speaker 4:Guys, parents, mothers, fathers be the soundtrack of your kids' lives. I'm just grateful for my parents because, like you said, they are the soundtrack of my life and I don't want it to end. I don't want that soundtrack to end, man, and when you listen to Dean Lewis that song.
Speaker 4:How Do I Say Goodbye? Yeah, I felt like when my grandma because she was a really huge part of my life and taking care of my hearing loss knowing that soundtrack is quiet, quiet, it's unsettling. It's not the kind of um silence that I'm okay with, and once they're gone it's like you really want to hear that you really want to hear that play again you know it's yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, man, um, I'm so sorry, like that. That's uh losing a grandparent, um, I empathize with what you're saying because I've uh my, so my grandpa um the one that I was closest to.
Speaker 1:He actually died on my birthday and I'm so sorry yeah thank you, uh, and that was that was in 2020, so I was during quarantine. That was. It was really. It was a really heavy moment.
Speaker 1:But I think that for me because I and this is just my perspective on life Because I believe in a spiritual reality, a spiritual dynamic, because I really care about, like, being connected to that and stuff, I'm grateful that somehow it puts me in touch with my grandparents are still touching my life, like I'm seeing aspects of me that come from him and when I notice those things, it's like he's with me, you know, and, uh, my hope for you would be that somehow, um, you would see that she's very much with you. You know, and and and, just in ways that that might be unexpected and maybe, maybe, potentially, ways that, like you, maybe some to become aware, you know, awakened to it. I also I'm not a superstitious person, but, like people talk about how, like, when Cardinals show up, what Cardinals? Like the bird, the, the Cardinal Card, cardinal, oh cart, like a, like a red car, you know red bird yeah that, um, you know, they symbolize uh, past loved ones coming to to visit you.
Speaker 1:so what's really cool is, uh, um, my office space is like right on my backyard and I have this really massive, like um sliding door, so it's like it's like a big window um to the backyard and and I'll sit and drink my coffee and, you know, meditate or whatever, just prepare for the day. And, um, I have Cardinals that visit often and so when I see them, I it's like, oh, that's, that's my grandpa, my grandma Sally, who's also a significant relationship to me. She, she, she's my dad's mom and she very, very important part of my life and and very encouraging part of my life. And then, um, you know, I I had a friend that passed on um also 2020, it was really tough. So I think of them. You know, when I see those those red birds pop in, I'm like, oh, can you?
Speaker 4:okay, I have a request. Can you make a song with the title red Cardinals I? I you know when you said that I now want to get a tattoo of it, because I only get tattoos when meaning, and just, I did not know about that. Yeah, yeah, Really. Look it up, man, Look it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love the idea of Cardinals and it's funny that you brought that up. I can't say that I'm currently working on a song that's called that, but.
Speaker 1:but I've definitely been been like trying to squeeze that idea in, like the Cardinal and somehow. So that's something I've actually been thinking a lot about, just cause I just think it's really cool. I think it's. I think nature you know some some people say that nature is the first gospel and what they mean is that nature is the first good news, the first thing that we can visibly see, like the way that things grow or change, cycles, right, Like it communicates the nature of life or love or hope, or whatever. It communicates the nature of life or love or hope or whatever you know. So I think in recent years I've been trying to pay more attention to that and be more present with nature, and so, for whatever reason, I have a lot of critters that are drawn to my yard man. So when they come, I just try to be present and just be like what's what's being communicated to me today? You know, what is it that I need to? How do I need to be encouraged or how do I need to take care of this? How do I need to be present in this moment when you know when the birds or the foxes or the I had a turkey come in my yard once.
Speaker 1:I'm dead serious, bro, Like this. Turkey just showed up For Thanksgiving. No, but it was pecking on that window. It was just like it was wild. Yeah, so yeah, I've had, you know. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you know butterflies Like I think that a butterfly is a significant. You know message carrier Right. You know that.
Speaker 4:Especially in the butterfly effect. Yeah, message carrier right, especially in the butterfly effect. Yeah, we have the grief that we experience and that will create a butterfly effect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, grief comes in waves, dude. I would assume this is probably true for you. Tell me if I'm wrong. But there are days where I'm just driving out and about and all of a sudden I'll think of my grandma Sally, and something she said to me and I'll be crying all over again. And she's been gone now, for it'll be 10 years this year, I think. It never goes away.
Speaker 1:It never goes away, yeah, so, so you know, I've got a picture of my grandpa, you know, in my house and I'll look at it and be like you know in my house and I'll look at it and be like what's going on, johnny? You know, miss you man. You know, sometimes you just gotta release that feeling or that thought that, uh, what andrew garfield was on stephen colbert and he he said andrew gov, that's spider-man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was on, okay stephen colbert, and stephen colbert was was talking to him about, like Andrew Garfield recently lost his mom, and he said something like I hope I'm quoting this right grief is love leaving the body, you know, unexpressed love, you know.
Speaker 4:I'll add on to that. There's a book I read about grief on to that.
Speaker 1:There's a book I read about grief.
Speaker 4:Um, it's a. The hardest form of love is grief, because it's not only when you lose something you really fully embrace the love that you have shared with that person and when it's hard to let go, that's the purest love, because you it has been so ingrained part of your life and knowing that it's not around anymore, that's the hardest love to carry, oh man yeah you just don't want to.
Speaker 4:It's like you want to unburden yourself yeah you don't want to deal with it anymore, but I, at the same time, it's always a good thing to have, yeah, to remind you that life can be so fragile and how we, how they left us behind, and how we learn from them. It's also another shape form, shape of it's another form of love that we can do in their legacy yeah, yeah whatever your grandma sally did for you, you can. You can express that to other people. Yeah, man and I, and I do.
Speaker 1:And I think that's like the lovely part of her life and my relationship, my dynamic with her. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is that she gave me so much to pass on, and I guess that's why I was talking to you earlier about, like you know, yes, physically she's gone, but she is ever with me, like I feel her. You know, in my everyday life, on some level, you know I, we, we cross paths. You know, um, frequently enough. You know where I'm reminded of her or I think of what she would do or what she would say or or what, um, how she felt. You know, like that's another thing is just like there was a warmth to my grandma, and sometimes I'm reminded of that warmth. You know what it felt like to be around her.
Speaker 1:Don't get emotional Grandparents man Like if you have a good relationship with your grandparents, that's a tough one.
Speaker 4:It's really tough. It's a tough loss, loss. I just didn't like how I left mine.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I had the last conversation. It was about, um, she was talking about god and for some reason I just decided to challenge it and that was the last conversation I have with my grandma. And then, when you know, things got with her health becoming worse and you know, my mom flew out to philippines and, um, you know to be there, and there was a day I got a text in the morning and my brother was like she passed away and knowing that's how I left it. Bro, that shit kills me, oh man.
Speaker 1:And I well, it sounds like you're well, first of all, maybe just because it sounds like your grandma was good that she she let you communicate what you wanted to say, but maybe it felt like you were being aggressive toward her. Is that kind of what you're saying? I don't want to put words in your mouth.
Speaker 4:No, I'm just more of like. I've always tried to understand. Because, everybody, almost everybody's like, so ingrained in religion. And. I just so happen to be the one that wants to challenge it more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you, but you know what I wish? I wish I said uh, I wish I could have said you know what, grandma, you and I may have our differences, but that's okay.
Speaker 4:But I hope one day that you will be the one to prove me wrong I hope you were the one that was right, but I didn't, and I don't know how to carry that and it's really, really difficult, wow. So, yeah, I'm going to try. I may not be able to fix that, but what I can try to do is embody the values that she imbued in me. Yeah, to try, because that mistake feels like the biggest one, you know, like when our grandparents, um have taken, they have made a lot of sacrifices for our upbringing, but then all of that seems to be hard. It's so hard to see when one tiny mistake, when one tiny mistake, I could have gotten, I could have flown over there, but I was too, um, scared. Yeah, I was thinking about me, I was not thinking about her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, yeah, that's heavy. I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't know if this is encouraging, um, but I had a conversation with my mom once where, like, I was expressing that, like I felt sad because I lived at a distance from my grandparents and I was worried that I hadn't gone back enough, you know, to see them, especially toward the end, with my grandpa in particular, I'm really lucky that, um, that my last conversation with him was a good one, and I'm grateful just grateful that my aunt was, was at his nursing home and was able to like get him on the phone with me, because very shortly after that, everything shut down, cause that was in 2020. Right, but my mom said something to me. She said, oh, quinn, she said you know that all your grandparents wanted for you was for you to live like, to like do everything you want to do. And she's like I wouldn't be too hard on yourself about how much you saw them toward the end, because they were seeing you live your life and grow and go and do the things that you want to do. And that was comforting to me at the time.
Speaker 1:It was like what I can do for them is live, is like. Is is like live to the fullest, whatever that means for me specifically, like like get the most out of this experience of being human. And so, in a way um. I honor them with that. God damn it.
Speaker 4:Oh man, I can't wait for my first red cardinal.
Speaker 1:I hope you see one soon and when you do, I hope you stop and just maybe have a convo with your grandma, maybe. Maybe you say what you just told me, cause it was really beautiful. God damn it.
Speaker 4:This is supposed to be. Oh man. Okay, we're going to do you. I love, I really love to answer this again, cause it just I don't even need to ask a lot of this, it just made it easy to go through.
Speaker 1:Kino, you're a good dude man.
Speaker 4:You're a good dude. Just one more question before we go to the other ones. Yeah, how do you forgive yourself For that mistake? Because to author Everyone's like, oh, no, it's okay. How do you forgive yourself for that mistake? Oh, because to others everyone's like, oh no, it's okay. Yeah, they minimize it, but you're not the one that did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, man, I think there's certain things that certain certain decisions that we make that we just have to carry a certain way that feel heavier than others. But I believe that very rarely does one decision define my life forever Right, like I believe my life is defined by both sides of the dash, you know, like, like you know, the tombstone dash, what I hope my life in its fullness communic. Like that, you know, doing the work is like processing the grief of that decision right and allowing for the time, the proper amount of time, to process the grief of that decision. But if you know that you messed up, you know then it's your responsibility to live differently. You know from that point and then, as the grief comes up in you, you know, through, like taking inventory within yourself, maybe seeing a counselor, you know huge advocate for that.
Speaker 4:I'm just muting.
Speaker 1:Yeah for that. Um, I'm just muting, yeah, uh, whatever you know, whatever, whatever you need to do to process how the impact of it, how it made you feel right, like you know, do it and then, but just remember that your life is not defined by that decision, I think, unless you allow it to define you I just feel it's like it is because I'm still learning, you're still learning, you're still processing it. Whoa.
Speaker 4:But you know what man? I'd like to be at a place where I already learned it.
Speaker 1:Right right, right right. Isn't that what we all wish, you know? But like, maybe it's a ground zero, it's a new ground zero, it's a new square one, you know, but like, maybe it's a ground zero, it's a new ground zero, it's a new, it's a new, uh, um, square one, you know, and you just, you gotta, you gotta riff off of that, I think um, I'll make another version of a soundtrack that she would soundtrack of my life, that this time she would want me to have man, I, I, I have to believe that that, like you know, it's, it's.
Speaker 1:I guess it's that spiritual side of me that says, uh, and this isn't disregarding that you have a spiritual side, so I don't know, like that. But, um, I mean, I just think our grandparents know. I think, like the older people, the wiser people in our lives know, like maybe you were going through a keynote and she knew it. You know lives. Know like maybe you were going through a keynote and she knew it.
Speaker 1:You know it's not like you were challenging her to I I don't know your motivations so I don't want to I don't even know anymore because yeah, maybe not but you know, maybe you know, you're just being young and dumb you know, like, and you said something shitty and and like, but like, she's not holding it against you because of that, you know, she, I think, like the wiser, older, wiser people in our lives, hopefully, I believe they know that those kinds of things don't define us. That's why our grandparents love us so fiercely. If you have good ones, right, they, they believe in us, man, like they don't allow these, these ruts that we get ourselves into to find who they believe us to be. That's why they're there the way they are, you know. And so, man, I have to believe, I choose to believe. Your grandma knows, she knew, you know, and she's just.
Speaker 1:It was just a day, just a bad day for Keno. You know what, man, she shared those values with you to the end, right? Because she believed in your better nature, believed in the best of who you could be, so, even when you were poking holes in it, maybe that says something, I don't know. Man, I don't want to project or try to define it for you. I mean, I don't even want to give you platitudes about it, right? I think I try to listen more, grieve more with people, be sad, feel that sadness more than give them an antidote. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:The book did mention about how platitudes will never connect, because it's only in that moment of grief that our world is ripped apart and nothing makes sense anymore but the only way we process through that is to literally go through with it and once as every and every step that we take towards finding our way back to the world, that it is at that present moment, um, we start to understand why people are there. They'll help you.
Speaker 1:The platitudes become more meaningful, but it's just when it happens, none of that shit matters yeah, I have a counselor yeah and I also have a spiritual director yeah and a lot of my conversations with my spiritual director specifically, it's it's more about like just being, like living through the dark night of the soul, or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1:Like you have, you just have to live it until you're out of it you know, and I think that what's helpful is like she's allowing she in our conversation, she's feeling it with me In our conversations. She's feeling it with me, she's allowing me to express it and she's just making space for the emotion of it to be there and to hold it. We talk about holding the space with people and I think that's the powerful thing about relationships and walking with people through hard stuff. You know, I hope and and you know to to kind of circle back to it, like with my music, I think, like I hope, it's a form of holding the space with people.
Speaker 4:You know what I'm saying, yeah, because we don't like circle it back to the other conversation. Yeah, we will not show ourselves until we're alone with the music and whatever music we listen to. That's when. That's the, that's the smallest moment that no one in the entire world will ever see, because, yeah, we hold that. That's only for ourselves. Thank you, thank you, god damn it. Okay, alright, guys, as you heard, I hope, um, for the people out there, grief is not something that should be I I also hate one more comment about this.
Speaker 4:I hate how current society sees it, as it's a thing that no one wants to talk about like a yeah, like it's, it's it's, it's a thing that they make it out to be so uncomfortable when, really, we just don't know how to understand, um, and how to empathize, because once something is uncomfortable, the first thing we want to do is run away, and that's why we get hit with the platitudes and hopes that it'll take it away. But you can't yeah, man, and I mean music it helps, is the one place where you don't hear any of that that's true.
Speaker 1:That's a good point where, where the emotions are expressed perpetually, right? Yeah, um, as far as our society, I think, like you said, we we want to slap a band-aid on it. We want it to exactly and sooner, and like. Grief doesn't work like that exactly.
Speaker 1:It doesn't work like jesus people can understand that the world will be a little bit easier to bear through we we uh have, we're we're learning, hopefully we're learning how to carry each other's burdens, you know, and it takes patience, it takes a deep patience to allow people in your life to process through their grief, to process through their losses, and I think maybe some people haven't experienced those significant losses so they don't have the grid for how it feels. Empathy, I think empathy is a really important thing and empathy comes from experience, lived experience. And so you know, for people that have had like deep losses, you know we learned to lean into each other because, like, there's like a language, there's like a shorthand that we know that we can feel it with each other. Right, it's almost like an unspoken law.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think when stuff happens to you that's like really big and devastating, traumatic or whatever, or whatever you know, I think for some of us, we learn how to channel that into being more present and available and helpful to others, you know, and not to like if you know, some of us can't access that like I don't think that that's shameful or wrong. Um, I think it all just depends on what we've experienced, right or and how we deal with it right. Some of us, for some reason, um, learn how to take the trump, the traumatic things, and use it to, like, bring healing to other people who have experienced other things. Like, like, there's like a, a thing called a wounded healer.
Speaker 4:You know that your, your woundedness turns it paradoxically, turns into what you use to the medicine, the medicine, yeah, and so uh the world is already full enough full of hurt, why why should we keep adding to it? And I think music's a great place to start with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man it, and I think music's a great place to start with that.
Speaker 4:uh, yeah man, I'm I dude, I'm an advocate for that. All right, that's enough for the section of grief. Uh, we're gonna be diving into the last section, uh, which is about business, business. Thank you again for opening your heart yeah, man, yeah, so business music licensing. I remember we had a conversation yes, uh music licensing and I gotta say when I looked on your website I was really impressed with the accolades that you have let me read it out loud for the people that want to know, oh man so okay you made a mark with the music licensing, with your work appearing on platforms like mtv, netflix and even at the super bowl.
Speaker 4:What so with that? It's like music licensee. Can you walk us through, uh, the challenges, the strategies and, um, some of the tips that most people would not would love would love to know when it comes to putting music out there, because some people think music is you only make music based off of the shows, but it's like, music licensing is not often the the avenue that most artists would consider when, when it comes to making money that's a good okay so, um, okay so with licensing, um, my, my story kind of starts at an interesting moment um in music, but also in film okay because, because that's essentially what licensing is.
Speaker 1:It's like you're pairing a song with a visual. Right. And so when I came into this aspect of making music, there was a huge shift in cameras and film. So we went from wedding video with video, like with, like a vhs you know camcorder camcorder right. So, like these epic, like canon, you know, like you know this better than me yeah, you know um and so like.
Speaker 1:All of same time, uh, licensing um in tv shows and film became a new way to like break artists. So like, way back in the day, there's this band called the fray um and they're still. They're still around, but their big break came from Grey's Anatomy, so their song appeared in an episode of Grey's Anatomy and everybody lost their minds. Who is this band?
Speaker 1:this is when Napster and the whole streaming thing was like the music industry is floundering, trying to figure out how to make money, and so pairing a band with a TV show and a visual all of a sudden became a new way to, like, feed the public, new artists yeah so, so, but, but, um, in that instance, like, you've got music supervisors who are directly connected to large productions, well, if you're a baby band, how are you going to get connected to those companies and get yourself those opportunities?
Speaker 1:Simultaneously, you've got these wedding filmmakers making these like elevated cinema style, you know, wedding films and they want music, great music, to pair with those visuals. But the music they would use are like major label artists that they can't afford licenses for. So, um, so this company in texas called music bed, um, uh, still doing, still doing great things. Now they you know the two guys that started that company they were wedding filmmakers, or at least connected to that culture, and they were like what if we created something? Like maybe there's like bands or music, that's already quality, but they're independent artists? Like what if we like paired up, you know, made a platform for?
Speaker 1:their music and for these filmmakers to to interface. And so, you know, I'm in nashville at the time newly in nashville, and and I'm kind of figuring out the game and and so I wasn't like going at it from the vantage point of like I'm gonna write music that's licensable. You know, yeah, I was just like okay's this. I know that licensing is an avenue to introduce your music to people. And my first, you know my oldest band, afterlight Parade. You know, we just finished making the record and it just so happened that the music I was making was cinematic. It wasn't like I'm writing it from this place yeah you know I was.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, I was, uh, in a batch of artists with music bed in 2011 and, like, my first license at the time was like 24 okay, three years later I was making like a third, fourth year teacher salary. That's how I would have equated it.
Speaker 1:Wow, and and because that, that market just grew yeah, so now you have micro licensing, what they call micro licensing, which is, like you know, low budget film, wedding film, not probably media, regional stuff and then you've got the bigger stuff, and so now there's there. At the time there was like a lot of conversation about like how are the macro licensing and the micro licensing going to like work together? Because there was a huge debate over like is micro licensing like affecting the value of the macro stuff? Because why would I pay 30 grand for a song if I could pay yeah, a thousand dollars for it.
Speaker 4:It might just eat up the profits like it'll eat into it it could it could.
Speaker 1:But I think, like, what eventually happened is like well, what if? What if the price point is based on the spot, the kind of spot you know? Okay, and something like that. So anyway, I'm just right place, right time, you know that's in 2011, you mentioned uh, it started then, that's when, oh so 2011, yeah yeah, so I I'm like growing with music bed, as it's growing okay, and this new market is growing and so, uh, which leads to other relationships, like in other companies yeah and then eventually I got uh, got the reach out from the label, the, the publishing house that hosts my music now Hive Music, and I was at a point where I'd kind of hit a ceiling with the way I was doing things
Speaker 1:before, and so I needed to change things right, to do a little change up. So, and things have evolved with licensing since then, right, so there's more of uh equanimity and uh understanding in, in both micro and macro, I think, at least from my experience. But, um, so then from that point, um, I was having to like reverse engineer how do my songs work, why do people like them in their visuals? And then, like, I'm like learning from the publishing houses that I'm connected to and they're giving me the information about, like what makes songs work in film and what music supervisors are actually looking for when they look at a song for that medium. And so it was a like reverse engineering, learning. It also like growing and learning from the my anr, anr guy and producers I'm working with.
Speaker 1:And what I would say about licensing is I think that it's a very particular skill because and what's really cool is in for the projects that I'm writing for, to me they're not like licensing projects, right, they're like you know, like Bloom in the Bliss is like my alter ego, my persona, and Afterlight Parade my oldest band band got picked up by Hive as well, so that so, and it is like TV is the new radio. It's like I'm writing for a format and I'm writing authentically for that format with these particular ways of writing. And you know, and I hope that people enjoy the music when they see it in a, in a TV show or a commercial.
Speaker 4:And it's the same thing with techiktok too. I don't like with the format film.
Speaker 1:Everybody's just y'all want me to shoot vertical videos from now on so, but I think, like you know, like I think, I think it's um, you know, we have to evolve with the times and and then, as far as, like, seeing licensing is not only an avenue to make money, but seeing licensing as a as a way to to create a particular kind of art, yeah to learn a very, very specific skill.
Speaker 1:You know, like what I. What I find valuable about um writing for a format is that um it forces me to take phrases like I love you and write it a different way, write it a new way.
Speaker 1:It forces me to make sure that my melodies are even better. I would say that I feel take I. I feel like I take um less risks. But uh, maybe maybe a better way to say is I take different risks, not less risk. I take different risks, calculated, calculated risks. And in it, it you know writing for like in a, in a for a, like for the TV, the visual format, it it teaches the economy of words, you know, and it teaches the economy of like structure, like from a musical standpoint. So, yeah, I think like I'm grateful for the skills and the tools that growing in licensing has given me. And so, uh, like, like, maybe, like picasso, maybe I can hope that, um, that I'm learning the rules, and then in other things, yeah, but but then, likewise, there's kind of like a, a circle back. It's like, well, what if in the licensing, what if I can break some rules too? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because part of the rub with that is like you're not only hoping that, like people who are watching those shows will like the songs, but you're giving the music supervisors something that you hope that they'll like. Yeah. That that will tickle their ears, you know, in a way, that that they'll become fans of of what we're putting in front of them. So so in that sense, like my, that's kind of how those projects sort of function.
Speaker 4:What are some of the strategies that you employ to ensure that a song, whatever you create onto whatever distributing platform? What are some of the strategies that you employ to make sure that it's successful as it can be, Especially getting picked up by a show like Grey's Anatomy and all that?
Speaker 1:Well, luckily I'm not that third party involved in that, but the way that the label works, as far as I understand it and the publishing houses. It's like a library. It's like the music supervisor comes to the library and says hey, do you have a song that says this and feels like this? It's in this kind of style. Do you have that? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the publishing house, the library. They're really good curators. They're like oh, we got three of those Check this out, and then the supervisor takes those songs and then they start pairing them with images. And they're also like looking at waveforms and how those waveforms are cut. You know, wait, really, oh, yeah, wait, they take into account the waveforms how those waveforms are cut, you know?
Speaker 4:wait, really.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, wait to take an account of the waveforms as in the well the big thing is, like, you know, um well, you know this man, like, like, like, when you listen to a song, you're looking for the best place to shop it.
Speaker 1:Okay, right and you want to make sure that the that in your visuals, that, like, the music stops at a certain point, or if, like, there's a piece of that music that feels a certain way to you and it accentuates what's happening in in the visual. Well, you want to be able to. You don't want to have to sit there and try to manipulate that song forever to get it just does it for you, it just does it for you just have to match it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got you, but I think like the trick with that is like, as a as a artist, making that music is you don't want to do something that feels so chopped up that it's like it's fake cookie cutter too it's cookie cutter or like, it doesn't feel authentic, you know.
Speaker 1:So, um, I think the difference between ad music and like, like what I do is that, um, and I'm grateful to the label in our relationship is that I'm making things that feel authentic to who I am, you know, and I'm I'm taking, taking, uh, the structures and the formats of, of the way of making it and infusing you, you know. Going back to our conversation, infusing my history and what I'm making.
Speaker 1:So, like you know, when you hear Bloom in the Bliss, or you hear Afterlife Parade or Saint Social, whatever it is like to me as an artist, you're hearing a piece of me, you're hearing me making something that that feels authentic to who I am. It just so happens that, um, like, I am interested in different genres of music and so each of my projects are distinct in that way that they're they represent a different facet of like what I enjoy making, and and and so like, if you check out bloom in the bliss, then you're going to hear this like pop, very pop, very happy. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Personality, this bloom character, you know, like, you know um, and then if you listen to afterlife parade, you're going to hear that more like indie folk version of me that's got these big harmonies and you know the acoustic and you know all that stuff, and then you know the acoustic and you know all that stuff, and then you know, and then my more indie rock side is going to be, you know St Social, the surfy tones and things and and, and you know the way that I I purposefully write differently for all three of those projects, not just musically but even lyrically, like the content, the, the, the lyrical content, the words.
Speaker 4:Oh, your, your creative style, it changes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, my my style changes with with each of those projects. I'm trying on different hats. Now, none of that is like disingenuous to me, cause I like, I like all of those styles and interested in all those styles and I'm hoping that my flavor of those styles is still uniquely me, you know versus it's my take on those things.
Speaker 4:And that's more.
Speaker 1:That's definitely going to be more valuable in comparison to the ad music where it's just like jingle, simple tune, it's you, you know when it feels like right, you know, when it feels like it's advertising a product, versus like I'm writing something that feels authentic in it but it belongs in this space and it adds um levity or dials up the emotion of a moment happening between two characters or sometimes storytelling storytelling yeah, yeah, yeah motions yeah, music doesn't have that you know, like I would say that, um, when it comes to writing music, for for that, yes, format, that even um the music itself structurally, like in different sections of the song, like you know, a verse to a chorus or a chorus to a chorus or
Speaker 1:whatever there are scene changes, you know you're writing scene changes throughout the song. You know I care a lot about the track listing. You know. So when I write, I want the journey of the record not just the songs, but the journey of the record to feel like the album record.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so from first the whole whole thing to feel like something you want to, and this is just my, my way of writing. Not everybody does this, but I want someone to listen to anything I do in one setting. I want you to feel like you know the exposition of the movie happens in song one, and then you know you go on this journey and, oh no, there's an abyss moment, there's like this struggle, and then you know you feel like you get out of that struggle and then you know the big ending and I'm not saying that, that all of my records are going to have that plot line, the three-act structure, so to speak right, right, but you know, like, but I, I will say that I try to write records that people want to listen to all the way through, and I and I and I assume that every artist does that but I pay attention to how it, how the this.
Speaker 1:I'm, I just feel very like impassioned by how this the songs feel like do they lead somewhere, like even within the the track listing, not just in the songs, like I care about that in the songs, but I also care about that in track listing.
Speaker 4:So I'm a very macro thinker with that you can even apply this to you know, especially if you wanted to, for the album that's centered around grief. You have some songs that start off with the experience of feeling lost, but then you go through this other song yeah, it's like the basis of how you're going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'll say, I'll say this you, man, I'm a very concept driven artist and what I mean by that is like um, you know I talked about genesis, and Genesis was known for like writing concept records, right, and concept records can be anything from like literally telling a story, like through a whole record, you know, where there's like a character that has like this journey, yeah, and every song is about that, right. Or just like you know, like the first Afterlife Parade record my oldest band it was called Death and Rebirth and the record was divided in half at first. So there were two EPs that then became the whole record and the first half was Death and the second half was Rebirth.
Speaker 1:And so when I was writing that project, I was like on the death side of the record it had a very particular sound feeling and I was not just talking about like physical death, but I was like exploring death conceptually yeah yeah, like you know, like um, like, one of the songs was about a breakup and another song was about moving and another song was about like um, you know uh like experiences that have heavy emotions associated with it, and then rebirth was a the opposite. Yeah, like, one song is about getting married, you know, one song is about um. You know the the.
Speaker 1:The club is being a place of yeah of a rebirth right where, like, you shake off everything, everything and you become something new, you know. So so that's what I mean like conceptual, in that, like I use concepts to give me containers because I'm so curious and and riffy and brainstorming that I need something to kind of keep me focused. Yeah, and so a lot of my output is, is connected to concepts because of that. So so what I would say is like, like, uh, in, you know, you're talking about strategy or whatever. Like, yeah, I use, I use the, the concept thing to guide um me when I'm writing music for that format, you know, and it keeps the brand focused, it keeps the tone of the. I mean when I'm talking about tone, I'm talking about, like, the writing voice of the songs and the story behind it.
Speaker 4:on point yes.
Speaker 1:And then it informs like word choice and diction and all that like in the lyrics, and so that's part of, I think, a part of the. The rub with writing for a format is like, um, you know, in the early I would try to get away with like some melancholy and they come back. Yeah, you can't put that lyric in there Like it's not happy enough. Yeah. It's got like. The whole song has to be happy. Can't be any sadness in it. Take out that minor chord. It doesn't work.
Speaker 4:So it's just a balance and it's like a cog. Every song in that record is a cog in a machine.
Speaker 1:It just a balance and it's like a cog, every song in that record. It's a machine, it's a puzzle. Yeah, you're given, you're given a, a brief, and, and sometimes we're like, hey, we need a song that has this, this kind of phrase in it. You know it's got a. The vibe of it needs to be this. In the early days it was like, um, hey, can you write a project that feels like this band, this band and this band, and you're just like, okay.
Speaker 4:Doesn't it feel restrictive though?
Speaker 1:Well, what's helpful? That sounded funny. Well, I mean, I think it depends on who you are. Okay. Now the thing about the way that it would work for me is that like it's not, like it's a partnership, so like I have a say in it, it's not like I'm just beholden to whatever they want from me.
Speaker 1:So if I felt like it wasn't playing to my strengths, then I would say something. My strengths, then I would say something. But luckily, because I have a really great partnership with the label, like we together can find like something that feels gratifying in what I'm making and I don't feel like I'm being disingenuous where it feels like I'm trying to make something I just can't make. You know, so for me, like all my projects represent a facet of who I am as a human and and so I'm lucky that, um, you know, the partnership is like created that kind of synergy and especially the fact that you are a versatile artist with your other bands and you dip in your toes into different genres.
Speaker 1:That gives you a lot of skill sets that almost make you seem like a art type of artist that can cater to whatever it is that they want and still maintaining your own voice yeah, man, um, I, I think that for me, I I like a very eclectic taste in music and I'm a very curious person, and I'll add that like, um, you know, another thing that I've done in the past is I've been in artist development, like I spent some time helping other artists define their voices and, uh, that was everything from like writing with other artists or producing other artists Other artists, meaning artists that are musically very different from me and I think that writing in and of itself is just a skill. So some writers are just the best at this one genre, right, and maybe they dip their toes in another genre, kind of like we talked about yeah like, like I like to talk to filmmakers or photographers because it re-informs what I'm making with writing.
Speaker 1:It's the same thing. It's like well, what if I tried this other genre? It might re-inform the one that I'm the best at, you know. So I think that that, because my, my tastes are eclectic, because I like to try new things, that that for me that's been beneficial and and what I'm creating and making and and trying out and and I'm, I think I'm doing the things that suit my voice the best, that suit my writing the best.
Speaker 1:But behind the scenes, man, like I love, like working with artists that aren't like me and writing with them, and stuff like that, I'm always about that. It helps me. It helps me as much as it helps them, and in fact I think that, like in the future, that I'll be doing that more, or at least I'd like to. I'd like to because part of my mission, you know, part of my artistic mission, is to be of benefit to the artistic community that I'm part of locally and the artistic community I'm part of globally. You know, like another interesting thing about the way that I work is that I am being fed tracks, sometimes from producers that I've never been in the room with Like for Bloom and the Bliss, like most of the producers I'm working with, are across the pond in the UK. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I've never met them face to face, my A&R guy he lives in Portugal, oh wow. We've been on the phone for eight years, but I've never been in the same space as him.
Speaker 4:But you have that build up relationship with the trust between you two. Right, that's crazy what that needs to change.
Speaker 1:And if he ever watches this or hears, this's time for us to like hug each other's necks for real, uh shout out to to robin um, yeah, you know like yeah, um, but damn it's really, it's really kind of fascinating, isn't?
Speaker 1:it yeah like um, but yeah, you know. So, uh, it's a really interesting way to work and and if you create a life out of that and I'll say, with licensing, it ebbs and flows like everything you have moments where you get those really big hits. I was really lucky that one of the big things that happened for me was a BMW commercial and it just so happened that the, the bloom and the bliss song that went with that commercial like, uh, it just matched perfectly. It matched perfectly. It was, it was the lighted up campaign, and the bloom song is called light it up and it had that vibe. And you know, that's to me it's like where it's, it's kind of divine, it's like these songs to me is like where it's, it's kind of divine, it's like these songs, it's like these. These two things were like made for each other and and so kudos to, uh, the music supervisors who have to define that, that that one song out of millions and I mean like.
Speaker 1:I mean like it's a, it's a. You know, they, they field a handful of things and then that list becomes smaller and then it might be between those two songs, you know, and, and it could be yours and it could be the other guys. And you know the music supervisors.
Speaker 1:They have a. They have a tough job to figure out like tonally, vibe, wise, like what song is going to hit the best, what's going to feel the best with the visual you know. And so you're just as a as an artist's writer, just doing your best to to be the best at what you make, the way you make it, and and the rest is kind of left up to the amazing supervisors, the amazing team that represents you and the supervisors who, who you know, take care of that business.
Speaker 1:And then that's the beautiful thing is when it all works out and it's very humbling. It's humbling and I've had moments where and I don't find out about everything Sometimes my songs will be placed somewhere that's a little bit more low key and I won't know about it. Um, and then sometimes, like it's like the, the larger spots and they'll be like hey, it's between you and this other person and it's like, ah, you know, fingers crossed, but like there've been moments where I'm like watching Netflix and this shows. I'm watching the show and also I'm like wait a second.
Speaker 1:Isn't that my song? Is that my voice? Yeah, it's like, wow, it's like I can't believe I get to do this. This is wild. People are hearing this all over the place. That's crazy. I hope they really like it. I hope they go check it out, yeah.
Speaker 4:So I can't do those that may need to hear all this stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, I have to imagine Well, it's super, it's super life giving just from being an artist and getting to talk, and, and I love the format of podcasts because it's a conversation, yeah and um, it allows people to see another side of me, you know, and and, and I'm sure that other artists feel that way too how does it feel, how people do to tell everything like that we've discussed?
Speaker 4:how does it feel?
Speaker 1:um, I it feels good because, um, you know, there's layers to what, there's layers to what, what we make, when we make art, you know, and sometimes I wonder if people pay so much attention to the surface of the thing that they miss the depth of what goes into making it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like the depth of of what goes into making it. You know, like that, what it costs, you know personally to make something to get there emotionally. You know, like I think, that a lot of what I make, I've wonder sometimes if I, I, what I make, is a spoonful of sugar, but it's to help the medicine go down. And I wonder sometimes if, like, people don't like read those lyrics closely enough, because if they did, they might be like oh wait a second.
Speaker 1:What did he say there, you know, like, like, what is that? And and um, because I am purposefully always trying to sort of like, subvert, I'm trying to subvert, I'm trying to say I'm trying to, uh, I'm not manipulate, I'm not trying to manipulate what I'm. What I'm doing is I want to give people enough of what they want so that I can say something else, that I can add a new image or a new picture to love or heartbreak or grief or whatever.
Speaker 4:It's not even manipulative at all. It's a storyteller. It's a storyteller, exactly.
Speaker 1:It's like I'm giving my version of this very timeless thing. Um, I just I like being able to talk about my work because, and my what I'm making, because, like man, I hope, I hope people like dig deeper and I feel like if, if it takes me talking about it to like make them pay attention to how things are coming together. You know, like the Saints social record, man is the most, to me, watertight thing I've ever made In terms of the intent of what it's supposed to be, the way that the track listing is laid out. Um, there's lyrical threads throughout, there's musical threads throughout. Like when I talked about making a concept record or whatever, like it is a concept record and it's very, um, death and rebirth to me like the afterlife parade. The first afterlife parade record is is the the thing I'm the most proud of. But, man, this record is like oh man, you're high.
Speaker 4:It's like neck and neck. I can't wait to hear it.
Speaker 1:But it's like you know, I had this really funny conversation with a pretty heavy duty manager of like a top 40 artists at the time, and his statement to me about Death and Rebirth was like he's like man, you made Viva La Vida before you made Parachutes.
Speaker 4:And so he was essentially saying Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I can't tell.
Speaker 1:To him. It was a bad thing. To him it was a bad thing because, like In music, like your career path is a story as much as your music is a story. Okay, okay. So like this is digging really deep into the whole Coldplay catalog thing, yeah, okay. So Parachutes is a band of college kids who are in a janky club or in your living room playing these really like, like love-lorn, you know euphoric acoustic songs, right, so like, if you're a kid like me and you see them like visually, like the first images of chris martin, and those guys look like I did baggy pants, t-shirt over your long sleeve, you got, like your, your bracelets on, you know, maybe a necklace your hair is like is, like, you know, flip, see, yeah, exactly, exactly, okay. So, like you know, story-wise, if you're, you're like that guy is me, me, and so then all of a sudden you have this emotional attachment and the songs feel like that guy could be playing in my house party. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But then you listen to Rush of Blood and now that band. Their songs fill an arena. They went from your, if you're them. They went from your house party to a theater, to an arena. Yeah, they went from your, you know if, if you're them. Yeah, they went from your house party to a theater, to an arena, and now their music is more elevated. When you see them visually, they're like more put together yeah like there's more thought that goes into their haircuts.
Speaker 1:You know there's no thought that goes into their press picks. So all of a sudden, you know there's a thought that goes into their press picks. So, all of a sudden, because you were. They were the guys who played at your house party and they're like your best friends, you're invested in their success. So now you're like they made it to the auditorium, like that's almost like a personal win for you as a fan yeah because their their success as a band was something that you had an emotional investment in yeah so when he says you made, you made viva la vita before you made parachutes, what he's saying is how is anybody going to be invested in your story?
Speaker 1:you're already writing music that could fill a and and p. Your songs aren't catchy in the traditional sense. Yeah. You didn't write a radio hit, I mean on Parachutes. You've got Yellow, you've got Shiver, you've got Trouble, You've got. Don't Panic.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:These are three very big, important songs that were either on the radio or in movies, Like if you see Garden State, that movie with Zach Graff or whatever and what's her name.
Speaker 4:Oh, my gosh, never seen that movie, actually Never heard of it.
Speaker 1:Okay, recommend it. Oh my gosh, please go see Garden State. I'll put it on my list, bit okay, recommend it. Oh my gosh, please go see. Um, yeah, uh, like you. You know, don't panic is in that movie. You know, zach braff has really good natalie portman. Uh, it's gonna, that was gonna bother me, uh, zach braff and uh, natalie portman um his, his directorial debut. Um, it's a great movie, great movie.
Speaker 4:What's it?
Speaker 1:called Garden State.
Speaker 4:Keno when you're watching this watch Garden State.
Speaker 1:Watch Garden State. That movie is a perfect example of a perfect marriage between music and visual. In fact, I would bet money on this.
Speaker 1:I feel like in the aughts, the early aughts, that most of like those indie films were doing that like really, oh man, like go back and watch little miss sunshine, go back and watch ruby sparks, go back and watch away. We go, like some of these, like like millennial coming of age movies and the odds, like and I think it's because like that whole licensing thing was like coming into its own, like we were starting to see that like music could be a character in the in the movie, in the in the film. Now, as we've gotten farther down the road, you don't see as many examples of that. I could be totally wrong on that.
Speaker 4:Wait, what do you mean? Is it because it's becoming oversaturated?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, I mean as a band, how do you punch up your way to make yourself still unique in a sea of all the other musicians that are trying to get their songs featured?
Speaker 1:So I think there's two things at play. Like my approach to that with Sane Social would be different from my approach to that with the other projects I'm part of, and Afterlife Parade and Bloom in the Bliss. With Afterlife Parade and Bloom in the Bliss, I think that it's more contingent on me, like taking a style of music that I'm interested in and just like being the most me in that style, whereas with St Social, with St Social it's it's more about embracing regional DNA. Okay.
Speaker 1:It's more about being so present in in the South and on the Gulf coast, like soaking up the flavors and the feelings and the sound of this place. Because, um, there's a, there's a book called how music works by david burn, the lead singer of the talking heads, okay, and he there's a section in the book, a chapter in the book, where he talks about how the space music is created in, affects the music, affects the space. He talked about how, like in the earlier stages of his band, they wrote very percussive music and that was because they played in a janky club called the CBGB. It was a punk club, so they needed to make music that would fill that space. But then they got bigger, they would try to play that kind of music in like a theater. It didn't work because it was like cacophonous, it was like, it was hard to like, it didn't feel good. So they had to make music that was then more open, so less like with drums like, like, so.
Speaker 1:So, uh, you too is a band that makes music that fits both spaces right, so it's almost like on purpose, like they knew. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:So what would the artist when they're going? It sounds like the artist. You have two options based on what you're saying. The artist will either go on their journey and adapt to their success and growth or there's an artist like you two you just mentioned. They automatically knew what they wanted, which is like arena, whatever same thing with queen. I know some of their songs. They became more arena like like uh, we will rock you, yeah, um yeah, and acdc, what? I know is that, but the point is yeah I think how was that for you?
Speaker 4:did you choose um? Which path did you choose? Basically?
Speaker 1:well, I think, I think with afterlife parade, I don't think that I was like aware of what I'm telling you right now. Like I so, um, same, same manager, different conversation. Okay, I went out to LA, um, and so, uh, I I won. I won a contest the the jansport battle of the bands, and got in in the summer 2010 I got to play at the forecastle festival, yeah, so that was like my first big, like major achievement, where it was like my parents were like maybe he's not crazy, you know.
Speaker 1:Like, like maybe maybe you could actually do this. Yeah, so, so, because of that content, test it. It uh gave me an opportunity to like use that as leverage in in the business. So I flew out to LA talking with this guy and, uh, he's a manager, top 40 artists and he's like, at this point I had recorded a record, a solo record, and it was good, I felt good about it. I wouldn't say that like. His feedback was this he was like you got a decent voice, pretty good songwriter, he's like, but you don't have a hit like. You don't have that one song.
Speaker 1:That like is gonna put you on the map yeah and there's nothing really interesting about you you're just your average, like white white pop. How do you? Take the pop like that. So what I did was and maybe this is what makes me different from a lot of people is I didn't let that deflate me. Okay. What I said was what is the most interesting thing that I could do, like what is the most me thing that I would do. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then I was like, and this whole hit thing, like do I care about that or do I just want to make something that feels amazing to me? And I was just like I don't like you know, at the time it was like I think there might be a formula for what he's talking about, but I don't know what he's talking about, but I don't know, and and I and um, you know, and I, I'll say this I think that there is an art to writing a single. There is a formula for writing a single. Uh, it's going to be different for every artist, but it's. It's like the song you use as the business card for the record right and and, and I like you just.
Speaker 1:I think that you have to have that at least one song for every record, and if you're really good, maybe four, four or five for every record you know. So I eventually started like studying how singles work, you know.
Speaker 1:But um, when he said what he said, I went back and I scrapped my solo record no way and that is when I started afterlife parade, because I had all these songs that were so like outside of my normal wheelhouse, yeah, but I felt like were interesting because they were me processing a very deep thing in a very interesting way, and so to me, it was like I'm gonna work on that.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna work on being the most me I can be. I'm going to dial up what makes me unique and interesting, and I think it's these songs and, and so, in a matter of speaking, um, what I did was I shot for the moon. You know, like I, I created a band and brought in a collective of musicians to become that band yeah, before it existed. So that was me like creating, aspirationally, making what I wanted to happen, and so I think that's why it sounds like it does. It sounds huge, it's still huge record. I think it's a timeless record and I'm really proud of it.
Speaker 1:But, man, I hadn't played, I barely played any of those songs in a space, much less with a band. So it was like record first, band second. And then I think one of the big things I learned from that process was that I, I, I had wished that the band had existed, and, and part of part of my journey with being in a band is like I wanted to be part of a family. You know, like, like, um, my parents divorced early. I'm the only son between them. I have siblings, but like they're between my parents and their significant others, and I love, I love my family, but I always felt like out of place because I was bouncing between homes all the time. So I think like afterlife parade was my way of reaching out.
Speaker 1:You were trying to find a family, trying to find a chosen family and the whole conversation with Afterlife Parade from day one was about grief and joy and how to turn grief on its head. And is death a part of life? Not just like a physical death, but are we dying and being reborn all the time? Yeah. And is it something to be celebrated rather than being mourned? And so that was what I was subverting from the beginning. So the sound of it was huge. The sound of it was huge.
Speaker 1:And I think that's what he was saying. Yeah, is that you made something so huge. There's no way you can keep up with it. And there's no way that people can fully attach to it because they haven't been along with you on a journey to get that big.
Speaker 4:Especially as you change the stage and then you don't have a legitimate radio single, yeah.
Speaker 1:However, the single from that record is what paid my bills for the next five years because of micro licensing. That thing was a hit. I'm micro licensing, I think it's still. I think he's still doing stuff holy shit. Congratulations to that I mean, yeah, bro, isn't that amazing? Like even I'm just like damn, you know, like that's crazy, uh, but uh, I'm, it's humbling, but um. So I think, like with saint social, the difference is, it's like I said, I learned the lessons.
Speaker 1:It's like you know, we've been playing these songs for a few years now yeah and letting people experience them and grow hungry for the recorded form of what they are. And and now it's like we can't wait to put this record out so that people have something to. They have the souvenir of the live experience, but they also have something to listen to, where, man, I can't wait for the. I can't wait for people to like, know our songs well enough to sing them back to us, you know, and the, the, the idea of like, you know, man, I can't wait for people to know our songs well enough to sing them back to us. And the idea of people being able to read those lyrics now and know what I'm actually talking about, because their experience up to this point has just been seeing us live for the last couple of years and not having the resource of the, the recorded form.
Speaker 1:So the beautiful thing is what's making this different than you know, afterlife parades, formation? Is that a like. I'm in a band from the, from the, from the jump, and I'm in a band with friends that I have like decades worth of relationship with. You know, like deep, like rooted friendship and love. Uh, brian the drummer and I we've been. I mean, we played together as teenagers damn history, dude history history.
Speaker 4:so History dude Talk about history.
Speaker 1:So this is like us, as friends, taking our big swing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and so there's that. And then you know, saint Social is the parachutes. It is like I purposefully tried to take those, those words of you know, I don't think he was offering to me that at the time, his advice, he was just being, you know, um, a voice from the business, like calling, calling it what it was, yeah, right, and so so now this is me like, okay, I hear you, I hear you and you're right, I see, I see what you mean. So let's do the version, my version, of what that would be but, I, feel like.
Speaker 1:My perspective is that there's at least three business cards on this record, and I think all the songs have those choruses that people can sing along to, and I hope they will. I hope they'll sing them loud and proud, seriously, and I hope that for the people who have seen us live so far, that have heard these songs, yeah, that when they read those lyrics, I hope that they'll speak to them, and then for the people that are yet to hear us, I hope they'll dive in man, and so I think it's kind of the best of all the worlds it's. It's a record that communicates sonically where we want to go. Yeah, like what our like, like man, I want to. I want to play an arena, you know, like like you know, but I know that you know you gotta build this, you gotta build the story, and and I'm okay with that I think it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:What ended up happening with Afterlife Parade is we had this huge record, we couldn't get into venues, we were struggling, and, because I was green, the whole booking thing was something I had yet to learn. So what ends up happening, though and it's actually really beautiful is that we start playing a bunch of house shows and so we have to strip everything back, which is fine, because at the core of Afterlight Parade is an acoustic guitar, is a voice in an acoustic guitar, and so it kind of. I started looking at our band name and you know, I think it's that divine whisper there and like it's an afterlife parade. You're like, what does a parade do? It trickles into a city, you know, starts real small and then it gets bigger and bigger.
Speaker 1:So I was like so maybe, like when we're building relationships, because everything I do is relational right, like I want our bands, my band, the bands I'm- involved in to be that really dynamic, intimate connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was like so if a parade trickles into a city then it's like every time we play it should get bigger. So it was like, well, if I could fill a house, I could fill a coffee shop. If I could fill a coffee shop, I could fill a theater. If I could fill a theater, I could fill. And so it's like, okay, so this thing could be built on those really deep connections. It's like, man, you play that house show and all of a sudden you're having these wonderful conversations and it makes people want to come back. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Bring people with them. And so, all of a sudden, like with Afterlife Parade, that's what we started doing. We started trying to grow out in every city that we played in and you know, the touring history of Afterlife Parade got cut short, unfortunately. Luckily, the music is still there. Luckily, the music is still there and, frankly, I'd love one day to take the band on a tour and it just might need to be in a gap with St Social probably, but I'd love those songs to get their due and and uh. But man, like I learned a lot of lessons, you know, and um and I, and I think that playing house shows made me a better front man. So I think, like my sort of desire is to make whatever I venue I play and feel as big as it is, to make it feel but the house shows you are.
Speaker 4:It's a smaller intimate space and you're building that relationship and once you get bigger, when you build that loyal fan base that have been intimate with you in a environment like that, they'll follow you when, like you said, the parade becomes bigger, because they've seen you yeah how do you are sonically yeah, when everything's stripped down to the simplest instruments? Yeah, they still know that that sound will always still be there as you get bigger, yeah, and when you get to the other the arena like, uh like yeah, you will have your own moment similar to we will rock you.
Speaker 4:Everyone is just let it be.
Speaker 1:Let me, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, I mean I love afterlife parade, um, grateful for, yeah, I'm still we're. I mean we're still making music. You know it's it's right now more of a recording project, but, man, all of us talk about, you know, in the current iteration of what it is, is that we'd love to get the opportunity to get together and, like, be in a live space, and I think it'll happen. But, like, we put out a project not in 23, but 22. So our last, the last ep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that we just did, and we we're working, we should, we'll have something out pretty soon, this year too with that.
Speaker 4:So um, well, okay, uh, I guess. Uh, just so you know we're almost out of time, but we unfortunately have so much to talk about. But you know what? We'll probably have him on another episode um hey yeah, let's do it, man, oh yeah um, there was one question I would like to get into before we dive into the closing uh, as far as the bigger picture having all this, having to explain all these achievements.
Speaker 4:I remember you were in a spot where you felt like music just was just not in your cards. How were you able to navigate through that, and I would love for you to share with the other people here, because most artists it doesn't even have to be music, but film photography. We will have days where we're just like why am I not getting the results that I want? And we are this freaking close yeah giving up. So how did you navigate that um?
Speaker 1:well, I I think that art and life ebb and flow and and you have like moments where you're on top of the hill and you have moments where you're not right, and I think, um the time that you're talking about I was just in a dark moment.
Speaker 1:In general, yeah and and I was just having to come to terms with, like, like you know, like I think, I think a lot of what I was feeling at the time was connected to how I wanted making music to feel and how I wanted to connect with people through the medium. Yeah. Right, like I'm not making music because I necessarily want to be famous. I'm making music because I want to impact the world, impact culture, and I want to connect on a certain level.
Speaker 1:For some reason, when I'm on stage I feel the most at home and I feel like, and I don't like, I don't feel like at home, at home, but but there's like a part of me that is access, that when that's not there, I don't feel like me yeah most me right, and I want to share that feeling with other people on a certain level and that's why, like, I aspire to play bigger venues and I and I hope that more people get on board with with, um, what I'm making, knowing that that on a certain level there's like a, a divine aspect to it, right, um, and you know, I know for some people they don't, they don't want to look at it like that and that's fine, it doesn't matter to me. But what I mean is like the aspect of it where, like, for some reason, what I'm making is elevated in a particular way that is visible enough for more than enough people to find it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:To have a fan base that you'll go to different cities and people will show up and you can make a living right living right like um off of, uh, putting on shows where people really love what you're making and it resonates with them.
Speaker 1:and so I think at the time I was, I was looking at my path and and coming to terms with could I, would I be okay with strictly like making music for the visual format but not having a live presence, and I, I for me, like playing live is where it's at. I just love it. I just love building a set list, taking people on a journey, feeling that reciprocal joy, you know, being able to smile at someone in the crowd, and you know them smile back. Like my band, we have a song called Iconista and I don't really want to give away too much what the song is about. Like my band, we have a song called Iconista and it's it's.
Speaker 1:I don't really want to give away too much what the song is about, yeah, yeah, but I will say that when I sing it, when I sing it, one of my favorite things to do is to, like you know, point out a lady and, just like, smile at her and make her feel good. You know, make her feel like an iconista. You know, like I can, what I canista I can, oh okay, I canista yeah, I think, um, in portuguese it's iconista, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1:Really, yeah, fact, check me on that. But uh, I I'm calling it iconista. So iconista, you know, like a female icon yeah, you know. So, um, in the, in the, in the record, in the saint social world, it there's something more going on there. I just I want to save that, I want to say yeah, guys, I want to save
Speaker 1:that I want to say not ready to talk about that yet of course of course, but anyway, uh, but, man, um, I think that, um, what that? What inevitably happened to me is I got so in the licensing game, so deep into it, that I was missing out on the people connection, that my focus was writing and writing and writing and producing, and producing and producing and like it being so online, and it felt less connecting to me that's an irony.
Speaker 4:That's kind of an irony of of making Speaking of the irony, I remember reading your bio. You love to put ironies in your songs, so the fact that you the fact that you we brought up the irony. That's what I let you know, that I read that part.
Speaker 1:That's cool man I, that's really cool that you picked up on that. Yeah, um, I in my songs I like to play with, like uh, there's a song called iron and wood and the chorus says uh, uh, you know I love you, don't be shy, we're gonna set this whole wide world on fire. Yeah, and so that's me being like is the fire a healthy relationship, or are we burning everything down because the passion is just like we're just working on each other? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:It sounds like you love the duality of both sides of every story.
Speaker 1:Because isn't that being human?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you can't have it's black and white, right? It's like that.
Speaker 1:Grief and joy are two sides of the track. Yeah, and they run together right. So for me, that's me trying to live that, to understand that to how do these two things work together? So I think it's really fun to write choruses that could go both ways. Yeah, so I spend a fair amount of time like messing with that. So, going back to what you said online, you felt I just felt so disconnected, and so I think it was just like another round of processing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's not quite going like I hoped, because I'm not playing out as much as I want to or connecting with people. I was feeling like unknown, feeling like I was disappearing. So I think what's beautiful is that things picked up with Saint Social and so like it. So then the other piece of that is, I think, like, as artists, we have to get down to the like. The motivation, our motivation for making you know is your motivation to be what.
Speaker 1:If only 10 people like what you made or showed up, would that be good enough for you? Like what you made or showed up? Would that be good enough for you, and so all of us? Is it good enough that you get to play with your friends and make this music right? So I think that all of us have different thresholds for what we're satisfied with, as far as what is success, and so you have to know, like you have to find that. And so I think, for for me at the time, I'd kind of hit a certain threshold and I had to. I was judging, like if all I'm doing is getting to make, make this and put it out into the world, and I don't get to do the live thing, or can I find another way to do the live thing Right. Am I okay with that?
Speaker 1:And and then, combined with just, I was like going through rough, a rough time in my life personally with stuff that has nothing to do with music. Yeah, you know, and I was like wrestling with some really big questions and wrestling with the path, my life path, and a lot of different things going on at the time. So I think all of it compacted. So I think that, as an artist, you just have to take inventory and, man, I think we also have to be okay with reinventing ourselves and knowing where you're at in your journey. I'm married with four kids now. Going like where you're at in your journey, you know, like I'm married with four kids now and I'm at a stage in my life where music is always going to be a part of my life. But, you know, pending how things go in the next few years, you know, I might need to reposition that thing in my life. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing.
Speaker 1:What it means is that maybe this is my outlook, that, um, I get to do something else yeah, you know, I have to go back to like my values as a person that are deeper than me being on a stage. So, like values, like I want to travel and I want to see the world and I want to do it with my family, with me, and I want to get to meet new people and I want to experience new people and I want to ask questions and be curious about things. So then, all of a sudden, that value dictates the vehicle for making that happen. Yeah, and it doesn't stop me from making my art making that happen. Yeah, and it doesn't stop me from making my art. It just, it just repositions art's role in my values um, being embodied the hardest.
Speaker 4:Well, I I love what you just said, because the hardest part about um reinventing ourself is that the first thing we need to do is be able to accept that we need to let things go.
Speaker 1:So you know, I think this is where, like for me it's hard. You know, like you know, I believe in a death and rebirth.
Speaker 4:Oh my God, it's all connecting. Yeah, it's an engine, you know.
Speaker 1:For me, that's like part of my, like, spiritual journey. Yeah, I see that as a rhythm and a pattern in the world. So if I see it in the world, I know it's in me too, and so I choose my spiritual practices to be more in tune with that happening in my heart. And I think at the time that you and I were talking, I was in like a place of grief and so I was processing the grief and the loss of maybe I need to let this go, and I think it's okay to let things go. It just so happened that sometime after that time that you and I were hanging out, that I just a second wind came into my life and it was almost like I got one more in me. I got one more go at this.
Speaker 1:And not to put too much pressure, you know, not to not to put too much, too much pressure, but but I also think, like with Sane Social at this moment, you know that things are happening in this band and for this band that haven't happened in my previous projects. Yeah, my previous projects, yeah. So there's like a vibe or a synergy or a flow that we're hitting. That just feels like man, like this is really good, and I think this is going to be, it's going to get really good. You got to keep that parade going, and it's just like you gotta keep the parade going and so, and so I so, with St Social, like I expect you know to, to to hit some, some mile markers that I haven't hit yet. And and another I'll say this too, man, part of me wanting to hit those mile markers is because, because I want to be helpful to other artists.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know that that part of being helpful is hitting those mile markers to be able to pass on wisdom or experience back down the line. And so you know, like I said, everything that I've done is communal. Everything has been me reaching out, everything has been that I've made has been to give back. Everything I've made is about a bigger purpose than me, and that's just the, the kind of art that that I want, that I've always felt that I made and want to make that's hell of a legacy to uphold and I think I hope so, I hope so.
Speaker 1:I hope we'll talk in the near future and it'll be like whoa Remember that one time we sat and talked about this and we did that, and we did this and we did this yeah, man, of course, I think why? Not why not me? That's another thing. Why not me?
Speaker 4:Oh my God, I relate. I love that. Why not?
Speaker 1:Like why not? You know? Also, I think, like you know not to get hokey, but like I think sometimes you just sense it Like it's, it's my turn, you know, and it's not like a, like a entitled thing, it's like no man. I did the work on me and I invested that in making something that is true, very true, the truest I can get. Yeah, it's like the bedrock of my DNA I got, as this is the closest, like I said, this is the closest I've been to, like I mean, this band sounds like I feel. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you did the work to get to yeah and and I'm not taking taking credit for the whole package because it's it's, it's the, you know, the four of us or whatever, that have made this thing right, but it's like, man, I've, I like, uh, I'm, I'm with great friends and our whole our history is going into this music. You know our like, uh, the way that I see the world is in this music. You know what I hope for is in this music. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, what I hope to pass on is in this music and and I'm crazy, crazy enough to believe that there's there's three, four, five, six, seven, eight more records, you know, that need that are just waiting, just need to get made.
Speaker 1:And I, you know like and I'm writing all the time, you know I'm also a very prolific guy, you know. So I'm always thinking ahead and you know, I try to find the balance between being present and thinking ahead. You know, I think that's a challenge, and I think that in the moment that you and I were talking, sharing, and I was kind of having a hard time, is because I was in a moment where, for a guy that constantly dreams ahead and sees a picture, it's like I had lost it, it's like that picture wasn't there and I felt desperate and I felt broken, and it was almost like I needed, there was a spiritual muscle that I didn't have, and all the ones that I'd used before didn't work, not in this space, and so I was at a loss, and so I needed, I needed a different kind of comfort. I needed a different kind of wisdom, a different kind of energy to step in and carry me, um, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that that every step forward has been easy since then. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I would say that I feel more surrendered and trusting in the process of becoming who I am right now, today, and I think that's another thing that we have to let the art do. You know what man? Sometimes I think we have to let the art do. You know what, man? Sometimes I think we have to let it just be good. I don't, I don't like like, did you show up? Did? Did you? Did you try to film something today? Did you try to scribble something today? You know, did you try to just draw a little bit? I think, like when you're grieving, like when you're walking through grief, that I love you sometimes is enough. Just let it be enough.
Speaker 1:And I've had to learn that too, that not every lyric is going to be a million dollar lyric, and sometimes you need the two cent lyric to set up the. The five dollar lyric. That's a great one. Sometimes you need that, you need the basic one to be the setup for the big punch. Yeah, and I think like what, if sometimes, what our art is the same? You know, like I need to get this one song done and it's not going to be the one I release, but I needed to do it because of the next one. Yeah, because something about what I learned in this one is what the next one needs to be a banger, and that's okay too, bro, I like. My phone is full of voice memos. I have folders on my desktop with stuff Nobody will ever hear. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's me riffing, working through something to get to the one thing, and that's okay, it's good. And I think, like in the moment that you and I were talking, I was just in that moment where what I needed to do was just be good with good.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, all that reminds me of this quote that I read. Is that especially why I like the words that you use. Why not me? There is this thing that I read which was the most terrifying thing at the end of your life is being at your deathbed and, as your life is slipping away, the last thing you are going to start that you see your. You know mass memories, everything, but then there's one more thing left that you're going to see your. You know mesmerism, everything, but then there's one more thing left that you're gonna see, and it's and those are the ideas and the gifts that you were imbued and ideas are now gonna die with you and that's the scariest thing.
Speaker 4:You don't want to leave them with you when you pass. Yeah, and the fact that you're, those ideas start. It's like um, they're all standing before you and they're going to ask you why not me? Why not me? Wow, why didn't you give me enough time? To become something great. And they're all looking at you. How are you going to process that? That's a scary thought.
Speaker 1:It is a scary thought. I think it's also like, man, I have things outside of music I want to do, yeah Right, like, I have book ideas, I have movie ideas, I don't know, you know like, but I'm also like, but I'll, and I'll jot things down about those things in in one of my containers, you know just, I think I think like in my, in in my lifestyle, the way that I've tried to build my life to be sensitive to the rhythm and the timing of things yeah I, I can sense, like you know what this stuff, this stuff's gonna happen.
Speaker 1:It's just not right now. And it's not that I'm devaluing those. Those things. I'm actually valuing them more because I'm sensitive to those things. I'm actually valuing them more because I'm sensitive to it. It coming like it's coming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like and and like. Sometimes ruminating on an idea for an extensive amount of time makes it more interesting, you know, like, and so there's some things that I've held on to for a really long time and, um, when it's time for those things to come out, because of the way that I've been chewing the cud, you know, like, like, what a like, what a cow does? Yeah, she's on the cud that when I spit that thing out, man, it's gonna's going to be like a dude, it's going to be really good yeah.
Speaker 1:There's stuff that I planned with Afterlife Parade. That's actually not going to happen with Afterlife Parade, but I think is going to I'm almost positive is going to happen with Saint Social. Yeah. And it's better. It's better that it's happening with this vehicle, so knowing when you think the idea is going to go with this thing, but it's actually better that it happens with this other thing.
Speaker 1:man, like I had to really like let go of afterlife parade at a certain point yeah I mean, I thought I, I thought that that band was done so to come back years later to, to, you know, reform it and and put out that ep was huge. Now the, the, its new form, is very different, yeah, and I had to release my ideas of what it was meant to be. But that being said, man, I'm so proud of it and like it's beautiful, it's like god it's, it's. And then who's to say that some of those dreams for it won't happen, but maybe it's like it's just in this incubation period?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I have to do something with these other things first so maybe not everything is lost.
Speaker 4:And also circling back to what you said, maybe the reason why it's it's not ready or it it's that you're working on other projects where it will provide you that specific thing.
Speaker 1:That platform that needed that component. Yeah, finances or or yeah we, we don't, I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't think we always understand how, like, um, I, I'm in, I'm kind of like, uh, the way that I work on songs is probably the way that I would be a painter if I was. Or like you have like multiple canvases in the room and you, you start doing one with. You know, you start working on one and you get to this point where it's like you're kind of stuck, so you go to the next thing and you start creating something new. So all of a sudden you've got like four things in progress. But by working on those other things, it re-informs the first one, the first one, and so I, I work on songs a lot like that, like where they're, they're like in different, um, there are different points in the process, and by working on multiple things at once, it sort of re-informs how I see each of them. And then and then, like I said, like I always, like I like write for albums.
Speaker 1:That's just my way and I know there's like a lot of debate about that today. Like is the album? Like, uh, is it obsolete? And I just don't care.
Speaker 4:There's no need to get caught up in that.
Speaker 1:I believe in the art of writing great singles, but if all you have is singles, especially if you're putting on a live show. Like you need that $2 song to set up the $5. Just as much as you need the two dollar lyric to set up the five dollar lyric, right.
Speaker 1:And that doesn't mean that just because it's a two dollar song, that it's doesn't have value yeah it does, you know, because you're trying to bring people on a journey and you need to change the palate. You got to have a palate cleanser. It's like. It's like appetizers and main dishes and this sort of yeah, man.
Speaker 1:So so, like you know, I want that in a record and I want that in my show and I, you know, I, I look at songs and and you know, know, like this is, this is a deep cut song, but, man, until I freaking love it and it's like it's like it's it's gonna be great in this one spot and I need it to do this thing, yeah, and so so, like you know, um, we can look at all of our projects like that too. They all have value, which is a very specific value, and it doesn't make them any less work, yeah yeah, it's just there there's a value so it's.
Speaker 1:It's no different than being like, um you know, working filmmaker, like I know that there.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of wedding filmmakers out there who want to make their their big, you know, sun dance yeah right and and maybe they struggle with feeling like they're in a rut, making those wedding films, right, yeah, but I would imagine, if it's anything like you know writing songs and being a working songwriter and you know, depending on, like how you're licensing music, because everybody it's all different like what if? What if you're licensing music because it's all different? What if you're learning things in making those films that propels that big film that you want to make? I just think we have to remind ourselves of what we're learning in the work for hire type of thing, what we're learning in in, in the work for hire type of thing and, like you know, are we allowing those skills to form, to form us as artists? Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, like you do something repetitively enough, sure, it becomes easy, but and then you've got to do like a. You know, you just got to do the work to get there. Yeah, and you gotta, you gotta. Um, what do they, what do they call it? Um, uh, when you're working out and you change your workout up, it's uh yeah. Muscle confusion. Oh, okay, there we go. Muscle confusion, you know you gotta do like a an artistic muscle confusion. You know you gotta like change it up.
Speaker 4:You, you know, throw yourself in the deep end somehow and you can't just stop either. Or all of a sudden, muscle will start having like an atrophy. Yeah, he's gotta keep practicing yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So sometimes you know, like, take stock of of, like, what you're doing and enjoy it and see the value in it and then find a way to throw in some muscle confusion. I don't know if any of that's helpful, but I hope so.
Speaker 4:All right. So, man dude, we're going to have you on another episode. Cool man. It still didn't feel like we just barely scratched the surface. Honestly, what the Okay? All right. Now, as much as we would like to learn more, we're going to have to go into the closing and guys don't forget to dm me or dm quinn to you know, let him go back in the next episode.
Speaker 4:Okay, all right. So closing, we're gonna have this and then we're gonna be done in wow. So, as a looking back on your music career so far, what is only one piece of advice, um or wisdom that you wish you could you had known when you started out? Of all the things you mentioned from um, you know, um, having that two dollar song to get to the five dollar song and being able to stick it out when you're grieving. There's so many things you have said, but what is one advice you would you wish you had known when you started out? And also one more thing you did mention about you were prioritizing on record of her band. Now, you wished you had put band first, because you wanted to have that sense of family. Now, going back to questioning, what is one thing, a piece of advice, you wish you had known, so that everyone who wants to be a musician can learn from?
Speaker 1:I would go back to, to what, what, um, ultimately that manager in la was trying to communicate to me, that that you know really own what makes you unique, and I think that the way that that that happens is by doing the work.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know, really getting to know yourself through, you know, spiritual practices, or great therapy, or journaling, or you know even like, allowing people that you trust in your life to help. You see, sometimes you need outside sources to help you see yourself like what makes you different from everybody else. And you know, once you get a like, a, like a, just even like a sliver of that, to begin to shave away like your influences don't, don't throw them out right like, like, like. There's a reason you're drawn to, to your influences. In fact, you might need to like, really sit down and and get to the bottom of why you like certain things and and how, what that tells you about you and and so, once you really like, own you, and then you, just you, create from that place of of pure voice and you find your own sense of joy and you find your own joy in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, man, you should enjoy, you should enjoy you. Yeah, you should enjoy you, you should love you and you should make from that place of loving yourself, you know, whatever that looks like.
Speaker 4:So find your joy, guys. Okay, happiness is temporary, but joy it's a constant thing that you always have in your life, that, no matter how things get hard, you can always have that fall back on. Yeah, yeah man, so Fuck, I wish we had more time. Okay, yeah, yeah, man, so fuck, I wish we had more time. Okay, so, for those that want to follow you, where can people, uh, find you on social media platforms?
Speaker 1:uh, at quinn erwin. So q-u-i-n-n-e-r-w-i-n, I almost, I almost, I almost wanted to go like t-i-double-ga-er, like Tigger, q-i-double-an-an, you know, like no, I'm sorry, that was wild. I probably went over my head, but when I'm editing this I'll probably get it. If you're into Pooh, you know, like the character Winnie the Pooh, yes, His buddy Tigger oh yes, yes, t-i, yes, t-i double go. Tigger, that spells tigger yeah q-i double n yeah, I was messing around, but um, okay.
Speaker 4:Well, now that's all at the platform, except, well, did you know? His website is on tumblr or hosted by whatever you know what we said.
Speaker 1:It probably needs to get updated big time, man, yeah now here's the last message.
Speaker 4:Um, what message would you like to leave to our audience, especially for those that draw inspiration from your career and your achievements after watching this video? What is one message that you want to give to them?
Speaker 1:um, I would just say that like it's such a honor and a privilege to be here, to be heard and to be seen and known, and you know, I, I hope that what I make makes people feel seen and known.
Speaker 1:You know, like, maybe somehow you know me, owning me, yeah, also makes people feel like they can like be themselves, right, and and so to me it's, it's like not only something I just love to do, but it's like an honor, it feels like a privilege, pleasure to like make things that that hopefully give people that sense of love and hope and peace and all the good stuff you know about themselves, you know, and about the world and about future and about, like, just just existing in a world and obviously it's a complicated world, it's, you know, we, we, we, it's it's hard traveling through this life, right, but you know, I, I, my belief is that that the world and the history of the world bends toward, toward love, and and so I, I hope that that people feel that when they connect with me or listen to what I'm making or seeing, and and then from there I just hope people go and do the same for themselves.
Speaker 1:You know, go make stuff that that impacts people that reveals beauty and reveals how wonderful life can be, and not in the sense of escapism I'm not into that per se. I mean I binge Netflix just like everybody else but I think the art that speaks to me the most is is art that reveals even the beauty and pain you know and and so like, like.
Speaker 1:I think I want to see more art like that out there. Whatever that is you know, in film or music or photography, you know there's just so much, so much, uh, beauty discover truth, so much truth to find, like Keats, the poet. Keats said truth is beauty, beauty is truth. That's all you need to know.
Speaker 4:And we have all these chaotic noises around the world. But what makes it more bearable and more easy to consume is the fact that we, as artists, have the ability to condense all of them into one piece of physical object. Uh, it could be audible, it could be anything, but the fact that we have that ability to do that is a gift it is a gift, you know.
Speaker 1:Uh, art is a mirror, you know and and, like you know, maybe sometimes we get to choose what we reflect back. And so you know, what I'm hoping people see when they look at the mirror that I'm building is like them, as beauty them, you know, like I hope they see how beautiful they are, because that's what I see when I look out from the stage is I see incredible people, you know, like people that are love and hope and peace and joy, and I've always tried to make music that is affirmational, you know. I hope they feel affirmed.
Speaker 4:They just need to feel, seen and heard, and I think that starts with discovering the right place, and I think your music win. I think when you reach that certain amount of people, that's when you have created your parade and that parade will eventually culminate in the whole goddamn arena.
Speaker 1:You know, man, I would love nothing more. That would be a lot of fun.
Speaker 4:You will. You got a second win would be a lot of fun. You will. You got a second win. Make it count. Thank you, all right, all right, guys. That's it for this episode. Thank you so much for watching. If you like this type of content, don't forget to hit like and subscribe. Bro, we're going to have more banger episodes like this, more insightful information like this, well as um conversations about hard topics, because I you are the first guest to have such an in-depth conversation about something that's uncomfortable to talk about, so I really really want to thank you for that. Um. You're like the sixth guest so far, um, but you're the first one to do that, so I really really appreciate you being open about that. Thank you, man. That means a lot to me, and thank you for for first one to do that, so I really really appreciate you being open about that.
Speaker 1:Thank you, man. That means a lot to me, and thank you for the opportunity to go there. Thank you for going there with me.
Speaker 4:That's really cool. The world is painful, but we need to start creating our jewelry. All right Hit record. I'll see you all in the next episode. You want to say goodbye, Quinn.
Speaker 1:See you guys later.
Speaker 4:And so you want to say goodbye Quid, see you guys later, and cut.
