"Every Project Is An Opportunity For Greatness" | Crafting Stories Through Music with Brooks Leibee

Unlock the secrets of film music and storytelling with Brooks Leiby, a multi-talented filmmaker and media composer. Brooks takes us on a remarkable journey from his early fascination with film scores to becoming a professional composer. Discover how he finds inspiration from various musical pieces, and learn a nifty iPhone trick for creating standout profile pictures. Join us as we reminisce about our past collaborations in Orlando and geek out over Brooks' passion for dinosaurs, from his T-Rex Funko Pop to his vintage Velociraptor toy.

Explore the nuances of crafting music for film, TV, and video games with Brooks as he shares his transition from behind the camera to the world of composition. Get an insider’s look into the collaborative process of spotting sessions and the technical intricacies of game scoring, with a special focus on the God of War series. Brooks opens up about the importance of aligning musical approaches with narrative needs and how constraints can fuel creativity rather than hinder it.

Balancing passion with financial stability is a challenge Brooks knows all too well. He candidly discusses the relief of maintaining a steady income while pursuing his creative dreams and emphasizes the importance of self-worth in the industry. Aspiring composers will find invaluable advice on experimenting with different roles and staying resilient. With reflections on influential figures like Hans Zimmer and the impact of iconic works like Jurassic Park, this episode is a treasure trove of inspiration and practical wisdom for anyone passionate about music and storytelling.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Passion for Film Music and Dinosaurs
• 5:32 Crafting Film and Game Music
• 16:18 Immersive Music for Games and Film
• 31:01 Creativity and Coincidences in Filmmaking
• 36:47 Collaboration and Scaling Expectations
• 46:54 Crafting Emotions Through Music in Film
• 56:34 Setting Expectations and Self-Worth
• 1:09:00 Influences and Instrumental Experimentation
• 1:19:36 Musical Instruments and Dinosaur Inspirations
• 1:27:51 Long-Term Vision and Artistic Evolution
• 1:39:38 Finding Balance in Freelance Music Careers
• 1:50:01 Financial Realities and Creative Pursuits

Transcript

Brooks Leibee: 0:00

But look in the past. You never know what will revisit you. I was interested in movies and always had a love for film music. It wasn't until 2016, 2017, when I was fully understanding, like, oh yeah, I can do this. And the background music was always there, reaching past all of the camera stuff and all of the other post-production sides of film. When I'm listening to music, usually there's something in there that I'm putting away in the back of the cabinet to use for later and find something to utilize, Like a certain idea or a certain thing to reference. Maybe it's something that sparks another idea. That's the thing with having fun with it. That's when I was like, wow, yeah, this is it.

Brooks Leibee: 0:40

I really love this side of the coin. Once you do find it, you know, and it's so cool. It's such a cool feeling. People do this for a living and they don't have to make a compromise to like go to their day job and then come back and make this crazy thing that changes everything. It's like this. It's this reminder of how big yet small the world is and how limited time is. But I do really just want to make cool stuff with people and release it and make it a job and have fun with it, and I want to do this forever and not have it feel like work Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Hidden Record.

Keno Manuel: 1:28

We have a wonderful guest here today and his name is Brooks Leiby. Did I say that right? Yes, sir, yes, I said it right. My name is Keno Manuel and you can follow us on Instagram. My Instagram handle is DPbyKeno and for this channel it's Hidden Record. And Brooks, what is?

Brooks Leibee: 1:47

your social. My Instagram is my name. It's just BrooksLiby, no space.

Keno Manuel: 1:52

Also, you could look at this profile picture. Is it AI generated or it's?

Brooks Leibee: 1:56

you. Oh no, that's a real picture, that's a. It looks really good.

Brooks Leibee: 2:03

But it's cool because I found a trick where, like if you do the on iPhone, you can create stickers from your pictures. Oh, so if you hold, if you hold down on like you or like an item in your picture, it'll cut it out and you can save it as like a new photo or a sticker in your sticker folder and it drops the background into black. Uh, it's almost like a clip, like a clipping mask. Yeah, in a way, just a really quick thing. So I did that and I was like, oh, that'd be a cool profile picture on instagram well, guys, you just learned the first tip of today.

Keno Manuel: 2:42

This is how you create a really cool profile picture on any social platforms. This tip is sponsored by Brooks Liby. Okay. All right. So, dude, oh my gosh, where do we even start? It's like it's been what. When was the last time we saw each other? That was I know we were in Orlando, but I can't. You worked on.

Brooks Leibee: 3:03

Entrance.

Keno Manuel: 3:06

What was the last thing we worked on together? That was a long time ago. I can't exactly remember the year, but I know for sure that either 2021 or 2022, what two? It doesn't seem long ago. What the okay? All right, I must, I must, I mean, that's a it's 2024, so that's still a pretty long time.

Keno Manuel: 3:25

It felt like it was short. Anyways, brooks and I have actually worked on his projects when we were in Orlando, and the reason why it feels like it's a long time ago is because it felt like it was a long time ago, because I haven't seen this dude in years. Yes, I said years. I think it feels like a decade, actually, no, it feels like a millennium. So we're going to.

Keno Manuel: 3:51

In this video we're going to be talking about a lot of stuff that he's learned throughout his career and one fact he loves dinosaurs. Can you confirm that for us? Brooks Eddie's about to confirm it. There it is. We have T-Rex. Is that a bobblehead?

Brooks Leibee: 4:08

of T-Rex. It's a Funko Pop. This is actually new. This was a gift from work. Oh. This I've had since baby time.

Keno Manuel: 4:17

What is that?

Brooks Leibee: 4:21

That's a Velociraptor.

Keno Manuel: 4:29

Yeah, this is an old Safari Limited Vel velociraptor toy from 93. Bro, I can already tell you have been inspired by dinosaurs because of your poster right there it's the jurassic oh yeah what is that jurassic?

Brooks Leibee: 4:39

park. Yeah, it is, it's the, the graphic. The graphic designer has some uh prints of the logo he made for the book oh wait a book not the movie.

Keno Manuel: 4:50

That's yeah, so this is like the original like press.

Brooks Leibee: 4:55

It's a print of a press, but it's from the original press that he used for the book I just haven't seen that specific design for jurassic park.

Keno Manuel: 5:05

That is actually really cool, it's awesome.

Brooks Leibee: 5:08

And he signed this too. Okay, well, I was a nerd I do.

Keno Manuel: 5:15

We're all nerds here. So, no, no need to feel ashamed about that, I'm okay, we're all nerds here. Look, look the popular kids do. Let's be honest, those are the lame kids. Nerds are the cool kids here. Okay, all right. Yeah, there we go. Um, so, anyways, long intro, long story, short.

Keno Manuel: 5:32

Brooks a great, awesome, talented guy and I feel like you guys are gonna learn so much from him, especially for you guys that are wanting to get started in music composing and also balancing that between films, all that good stuff. So this is, this is the guy you need to hear from when it comes to becoming a master at that craft, and I feel like he's gonna say he's not a master. Yet there it is. I knew it. See, every guest will always undermine themselves. Why do you all do that? Come on, you need to own it. Brooks, you're good at what you do. You are in your own level. You don't need to compare to okay, you're good, all right, own that shit, all right. We're not gonna curse here that I'll be the only one that's cursing here. Brooks, tell us who you are, what your mission is, uh, in life, as creative is, and all that stuff.

Brooks Leibee: 6:20

So I'm gonna leave the mic to you my name is brooks, I'm a filmmaker and a medium composer media composer and what that means is I want to write music for film, tv, interactive media, so like video games or virtual reality experiences the term is really broad now. But mission in life I don't really have a mission per se, but everyone wants to succeed in doing what they love and if I get to do that without having to compromise or make some kind of work-life balance, you know, what I mean, then I'll be happy.

Brooks Leibee: 7:06

So if I succeed in doing that, I would call that a mission success. Um, yeah, and from like the early days tiny brooks uh, I was interested in movies and uh, always had a love for film, music, yeah, but like it wasn't until 2016, 2017, when I was fully understanding like, oh yeah, I could do this as like first, just for fun, because when you're making short films, you don't fully realize, oh yeah, someone could make the music and it can be original and fully tailored to the story you're trying to tell. So I ended up taking that on while also fulfilling other duties on shorts. I mean, when we worked together, I was directing for the first time on a short film and I come from a background of like video shooting weddings at, editing weddings, short films, uh, getting like grip work on, or PA work, even on commercials in town, in Myrtle beach and like some things in Orlando, um, but in the background music was always there. So then fully reached, like reaching past all the camera stuff and all of like the other post production sides of film, um, and fully grasping music in film.

Brooks Leibee: 8:42

That, yeah, that's when I was like, wow, yeah, this is it. I really love this side of the coin and uh, yeah, but going from there, um, because I could go on a huge tangent about everything, um, that was the coolest part so far of, like, the journey, uh, the path we're all on it's. You know, once you, once you find even late, I'll say it's late. I'm in my 20s and I was, yeah, early 20s whenever I found this. Yeah, it hasn't been that long, um, but once you do find it, you know, and it's so cool, such a cool feeling dude, so much to unpack here.

Keno Manuel: 9:24

I I mean we could literally go into, well, the project that we worked on, but also go and dive into what really drove you to choose this career as a music, uh, as a music composer, and what were the people that influenced you, because I feel like I remember we had, uh, a conversation about hans zimmer, and it's just. And then also I love, love, love, love the fact that, despite all the um, the journey that you went through to find where you felt like was your true calling, you ended up going to the music side, which is pretty interesting, because maybe it's just me, a lot of people would like to be really hands-on on cameras. We don't want that's a director, but I got to say you're the first one that I have met I'm serious, ever since we haven't, ever since we parted ways, you are the only one that I've met so far, besides Ben Shepler.

Keno Manuel: 10:18

um, that has been really yeah you remember that guy, love that guy. Um yeah, ben's cool. You two are the only audio engineers on the side of film production that I have met so far. So I think let's start off with what really drove you to choose music and how you just express your creativity through that art form. Because that art form. I don't think people really realize just how much of an impact that music has on short, short film movies, because you mentioned earlier it's, it's one of those things that not a lot of people pay attention to, but it just makes up. I would say, would you agree with how video visual is 50 but the other 50 is audio?

Brooks Leibee: 11:09

absolutely yeah, and even that has like a like a diagram within itself, because then you're tossing up like foley and production, audio and sound design and then music, and I mean I feel like if you ask different people you'll get different answers. I think I think, with the ratio of, like the sound design and production audio portion, that that covers basically the 50% of audio and then the rest of 50% is is is music as a whole. You'll have different people wearing different hats music editors and copyists. If there's an orchestra, the musicians there's that. But I feel like that's a different cookie cutter there. But yeah, the music side, I think, is especially very important with how audiences receive a film.

Brooks Leibee: 12:17

Sometimes I say that the music's only as good as the movie, which I don't think. I don't think it's true anymore, but there's some truth to it. There is some truth to it, I think, uh, because you can watch a terrible movie with a story that doesn't make sense, but the music could be incredible and the tactical level you could be. You know you could be humming it uh down, downloading the soundtrack. Um. Same with video games, I mean, like people talk about Helldivers a lot, I don't think that's a game that will be narratively received as a critical thing. You know, it's not going to win the Oscars of video games in terms of story. But people be humming that music though it's got a crazy soundtrack. Um, so that was so.

Keno Manuel: 13:09

That was another tangent leading into hey, dude first of all, we're gonna make something real clear here tangents, vents, whatever I I want to show everyone why you're so passionate about this stuff. So don't ever feel don't ever feel like you have to rush through your tangent. We're here to listen to you, dude. Okay, that tangent that you just gave sweet, it's going to help a lot of people, I know it will. And also, the other thing you mentioned that I'm just really curious about is how tell us how you dived into the video game aspect, because short films most people in this career, they focus on the short film, but video games, bro, how tell us how, where, what, when go?

Brooks Leibee: 13:57

it kind of started with the short film legacy. The composer on that that I met. I always say that I bother people on twitter and that's usually how I make professional friends and collaborators, um, so like the composer on that I was, I appreciated his, his work for a little bit. His name is dallas crane hi dallas, if you watch this. Uh, he's out in LA, he's crazy talented. He does a lot of jazz, cartoon animation stuff, um, but he works with a guy, his boss, you could say, uh, who is a video game composer, um, and he works on crazy titles, assassins create, et cetera, and from that you know the bridge connected because I also appreciated this guy's work His name's Austin Wintory and the bridge there, and it's still a conversation in that industry today of the connection between film composing and video game composing.

Brooks Leibee: 15:04

Because I feel like there's a gray area there, especially now that games are also trying to be more cinematic. That leads to more cinematic music. You can meet even Helldivers. Helldivers has a really cinematic score big orchestra, fanfare, etc. It's like like a military, military-esque thing. But Dallas also does video game stuff and just talking to him extended this interest of that would be really cool, because before then it's just the same thing with with movies. I would listen to a lot of soundtracks and uh read a lot of articles or watch documentaries on the like, the process, uh, and it's a lot of work. It's a lot more work than um. Some people will disagree with this. The, the industry has a spectrum of like how people uh think everything works um, but my opinion is it's a lot more work than film scoring, um, I almost think that's objectively true because it's interactive.

Brooks Leibee: 16:18

So not only are you writing music, um, that has to work musically, it has to work technically too, because you're creating tracks that have to react to how the player is controlling the scene, so, like if you're walking in, like a field, it can be this like scenic, atmospheric music. But then if something action-based is triggered, like there's an enemy or something that spawns, or if you come upon something or a cinematic triggers, it has to, has to flow into that next thing, or else the player will find like a disconnected it won't be just as immersive without that, exactly exactly.

Brooks Leibee: 17:01

The immersion part of it's very important too, um, which helps then?

Keno Manuel: 17:05

like we said earlier, it helps the the audience receive the story better this, all this conversation just reminds me one, a few games, especially from podesta I think I said their name right, but the most notable one is skyrim. If, in little things, when you, especially you know the, the intro of the horse, when you're about to be beheaded to know this video will be not r-rated, guys, okay, disclaimer, there will be no gore, blood, anything like that. But going back to you know, it's like maybe, um, yeah, it's like with elder scroll series. You just, and from the very first get-go, you hear the sounds of the horse, the hoofbeats, the snow, and then especially the dragon, and then you hear this fantasy style music and then when we jump into fallout, it's more sci-fi, post-apocalyptic, and then another game comes to mind, last of us, and it's just.

Keno Manuel: 18:02

There's a whole myriad of video games that have such a huge impact, um, when it comes to the soundtrack. But I'm wondering from your end, what really makes, what really makes the game feel immersive, and especially with film? Can you walk us through the process of trying to make something immersive? Because you mentioned earlier, it's like even something as simple as a player action, it just triggers, it just acts, has that trigger in your mind that it gives, gets you just as immersed into the game. So walk us through the process of how you would go about that when it comes to scoring a game or a film just full transparency.

Brooks Leibee: 18:41

I don't have a professional experience with video games. This is all just like from studying and things like that. So, yeah, if I say anything incorrect, that's for anyone who has more experience who's watching ah, okay then that.

Brooks Leibee: 18:55

Then that explains things. Um, so, as far as I'm aware, it all stems from, I believe, the gameplay itself, and also with films, you have things called spotting sessions and that's whenever you sit down with the filmmaker and this happens before you write anything. I mean, there could be a theme written or two, but you're sitting down with the filmmaker, usually the director and some producers and, uh, or just the director. If it's like a super small thing, it could literally be anybody. The goal there is to literally mark down like time, code or or however the process is working, where music will go and what the purpose it'll serve. Um, so the same thing with with video games is, if it's a cinematic, you probably do exactly that. You would have a spotting session, because then you're basically scoring a movie, because everything's either pre-recorded or it's going to run in real time, but it's. There's not going to be anything different. That happens, but in gameplay terms, I assume there would also be a spotting session, but it would be more so the purpose the music will serve in terms of gameplay but also story. So, like the PlayStation God of War games, bear McCreary's score him and his team. The themes that he would write oftentimes would be branched out into, uh, smaller composer roles. Okay, say, um, this is like a very specific consideration because of how big his team is. Not every team is like this.

Brooks Leibee: 20:47

But let's say, here's a theme I wrote there's a battle sequence or a boss fight that takes this long approximately for a player to beat. For a player to beat, we need to have this much music, cover that much time, and double that because of how that gameplay can change, because every player is going to have a different experience. They'll do different things. If you have a fight in like a I guess boss battles are the easiest example you're in a battle arena, you walk in. Usually there's like a entrance that happens that introduces you to this enemy and sets the stage. So you have a stinger which is just like the opening to this thing, and you can present it as one long piece of music, but it's cut up so the game can trigger these different sounds whenever it needs to.

Brooks Leibee: 22:00

Once the game starts, then you have this loop. So then you write this extended thing that could be like a minute long, but if this fight takes five ish minutes, you can write it in parts or you have to write it in a way where it can seamlessly loop, um, and the trick for that usually, I think, is like you write the looping bit and then you write these fillers that hide the scene and if there are any narrative beats that happen. Same thing with the stinger, like the opener and the button, which usually the button is what finishes the piece. It's like, uh, if you watch a sports channel or uh, news, the music that plays at the very end of everything, like when we cut to commercial and there's a little, you know some, some horns play or something. That's a button. Um, so, like in video games or anything music wise, the, the cap to that, the ending, that's ending. That's usually called the button. And the same with the loops, the stinger, the chapters.

Brooks Leibee: 23:15

Like, if there are different things like the Balder fight in the first God of War 2018, there were segments to that the music would change because you change arenas.

Brooks Leibee: 23:26

It goes from like the cabin to uh, like that big rock, yeah, and then out to like the mountains, um, so the music changes because the location changes. There are fillers, there are cinematics that cut in between everything. I mean that's a crazy game to think about music, because it's all it's set up like it's one long shot. There are no cuts in the game. There are fades to black and things like that that are hidden, but usually without cuts. That makes it so much harder to hide the tricks, especially with music. So thinking about that's pretty crazy. But yeah, video games are really challenging, really daunting I'm always studying up on it and there's a lot of development that you also have to know as a composer, like knowing middleware, because you have the game engine and then you have the developer tools and then in the middle of that, that's where the composer lives-ish, because you have to implement all this music that you write so you could have all the tracks done, but then you have to connect everything in the game, like color correction nodes.

Brooks Leibee: 24:44

You have to connect everything, make sure it all works.

Keno Manuel: 24:47

So it's like a node-based workflow. It's the same thing for composers, yeah.

Brooks Leibee: 24:53

Kind of With video games. I mean, every middleware and every game engine is different, but that's a whole other job. Basically, oh my gosh, game sound implementation.

Keno Manuel: 25:07

It's intense, guys see, please, let's give more appreciation to musicians and composers. If you're playing God of War, if you're playing god of war, if you're playing help divers, they need some appreciate. Okay, they need, they need some wins, all right. So, uh, translate uh your experience and how you worked and, in your short film legacy, especially how you were trying to direct the music side of it and what were some of the things that you learned during that process it's cool, uh, being on the composing side now, because, having been on the opposite side, where you're the director and you're trying to communicate, yeah to the composer, uh, direct filmmakers and directors always are like I don't speak.

Brooks Leibee: 25:55

And it's funny because it's like you don't have to. Composers and media are almost like therapists, because it's their job to translate what you're trying to say into music. So if you don't know music, speak, don't be scared, because that's part of the composer's job. They'll help you, they'll get there. And with Dallas, because he scored Legacy, the biggest learning curve for that was just like, well, it wasn't even a learning curve because I was just going to do this, I was going to just let him do what he wants. Because when you work with certain people and you trust them and you appreciate their work, I mean it gets to a point where you know if they had, of course there's the, the collaboration side of it, where you figure it out together, like what the music's going to bring to the table that the rest of the film isn't doing.

Brooks Leibee: 26:47

Um, and the score he wrote for legacy was incredible. He I mean my initial thought of music was like yeah, orchestra, uh, really emotional, um, like acoustic, and he was like no, how about crazy, like weird sounds and synths and like the only string instrument I think in there was like this crazy bass like contrabass, double bass, the upright one. Yeah.

Brooks Leibee: 27:15

Uh, sample of like just someone just shredding it on the strings, like at the very end of the movie, um, but the rest of it's like bells and synths and just odd noises, and that was something that I never considered as as the director of this, and I wrote the script and it was in my head and heart for the longest time um, but it fit so well, it was perfect. So, like the learning curve, I guess for that, for for me, when I was still in the directing side was like trust your composers, trust your collaborators, because they might, they might suggest something that you never thought of, and that's fine, that's okay. We're all artists and we'll all offer something different to things. Um, so it's like leave your ego at the door and let them bring something fresh and new to your project, and that's always something that I hope for the projects that I work on, and it's not often when that happens, which is crazy, but that's how the cookie crumbles.

Brooks Leibee: 28:22

People have their visions, and I mean most of the time, I feel like everyone has the correct vision, but there are plenty of times when I have to either step away from a project, which there are times when you're just not the right fit, and that's another thing, and I was worried about that with legacy too. That crossed my mind initially when I was like, oh no, it's not an orchestra. Did I make a mistake? Which, no, not at all. But uh, there are times when you won't be the right fit. That's also okay.

Brooks Leibee: 28:59

So don't mix those things up of like they have this in mind, so they're evil and they don't appreciate me as an artist. That's not fair. If they have a vision in mind and I mean, if you're not offering something, then that's not their fault, that's not their fault Then you step away and then you go back to the drawing board and then you think, oh okay, so maybe I need to look at things different and on the next project or a similar project where there can be a similar want or need, then you can fulfill that. But yeah, you're always, you're always learning new things and I think those are like those are two big takeaways from back when and then recently. Uh, between just like, trust your collaborators and also, if you're not the right fit, sometimes that does happen and that's okay I'm glad you shared that uh process.

Keno Manuel: 30:02

I didn't realize just how much you had to go through that because all I saw was, um, you know the camera side, but now learning the amount of work that you put into the, the music, musical side of the, the movie legacy legacy, by the way, is why don't you tell us a short summary of legacy for the people that are just wondering what are you all talking about? What is legacy?

Brooks Leibee: 30:24

I guess he's a short film. I mean it's a, it's a larger thing that I had in mind for years, like late high school. I came up with the idea because I was listening to like orchestral tracks on the school bus on the way to like to high school and it was completely different yeah. It was completely different back then.

Brooks Leibee: 30:43

Cause, like when you listen to that kind of music, you know you can't help but like, visualize, like, oh, what kind of movie would this work to? So it's like I was kind of backwards film composing in my head, which is funny. I never composing in my head, which is funny. I never thought about that until now. Um, and it was completely different. Uh, the movie gosh I started at, uh started college in like 2015, and that's when I think it was either 2015 and 2016. When the movie take shelter, it was either take shelter or uh, no, no, uh, what is it called midnight?

Keno Manuel: 31:18

something midnight mass. No, it wasn't midnight mass, it was not a midnight mass, I know, it was.

Brooks Leibee: 31:25

It had a very similar concept midnight shack, midnight.

Keno Manuel: 31:32

I know what you're talking about, step. It's the father with the boy and they were trying to run away from the authorities I know what you're talking about. Step. It's the father with the boy and they were trying to run away from the authorities. I know what you're talking about.

Brooks Leibee: 31:40

Yeah, the trailer for that came out and I was like you're joking, because that was so similar to the idea. Um, but I know, I know it was just like purely out of coincidence and circumstance, because I mean, it's jeff nichols, who I still love, he's one of my favorite filmmakers today. Uh, I mean, it had an incredible cast and there were just things in the trailer that were sprinkled around. When I watched the movie it's very different, but the trailer I was like oh my god, this is that, this is, this is what was it called initially, my movie. It wasn't legacy, it was like, uh, something really stupid and dramatic, like red dawn or something like that. But that's, that's a red dawn, not red on the, the high school, uh, world war movie yeah, that's a classic movie, yeah, I love that yeah

Brooks Leibee: 32:40

turned out not to be like that, but I still really like that movie. Um, the name of it's gonna come to mind at some point. Going through to that process, I rewrote it because the trailer scared me. I was like no, the father-son dynamic thing stayed, uh. And it's like this thing of like uh expectations within a family, like if, say, with like lineage, there's like an expectation that's passed down and sometimes who it's passed down to doesn't isn't you know, they don't ask for this, they're kind of stuck with it and it's like a curse in a way. So I formed this idea of what if that was like a power, like a superpower, and that can be correlated to so many different real life things, like money or power in a different sense, because inheritance is a very strong thing and this little kid, he finds this inheritance early and I mean, I guess spoilers don't really matter because it's not really, it's not precious at all yeah he accidentally kills his mother through this outburst of this power.

Brooks Leibee: 34:07

It's a superpower and it runs through the family. Um, it's funny too, because there are so many TV shows and movies that have this exact storyline.

Keno Manuel: 34:19

I mean, there's one Project.

Brooks Leibee: 34:21

Power.

Keno Manuel: 34:21

Code 8, Bright. I mean TV shows and movies that have that similar storyline. Yes, yeah.

Brooks Leibee: 34:31

It's crazy how many have come out in the span of since Legacy. Because it's crazy, I think. I feel like I always feel like there's a weird coincidence in projects in like large and small. Um, because right now I'm noticing this is a tangent, but I noticed for some reason there's like a big market for movies with big fluffy creatures. It's a weird. It's a weird thing because, like, there's the imaginary friends movie and then there's the horror movie, imaginary, what both have like, yeah, there's a. There's a movie john krasinski's new movie is called imaginary friends and it has this big blue fluffy thing voiced by steve carell. And then there's imaginary, a horror movie with DeWanda wise that also has a big fluffy bear, but he's not cute. And then there's another movie coming out on Netflix called Eric with Benedict Cumberbatch, who also I don't think it's a, it's like a. Canonically it's a puppet. Like in the movie it's a puppet, but it's a big blue fluffy puppet for some reason.

Keno Manuel: 35:43

It's like a same idea it's a recycled idea but interpreted in different ways. Like you know, winnie the Pooh, the horror movie Did you hear about that? Yeah, what is up with that? It's crazy public domain. The sequel is coming out soon, but, um, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I would like to get back to what you were saying because, um, when you mentioned earlier, about the I was trailing off no, you're good.

Keno Manuel: 36:07

No, there was. You said a lot of great things, but there was one part that stood out I wanted to have you share with us is going back earlier, when you described that, yes, the film scoring and all that would you just describe just how complex the process can be. And now, how did you avoid scaling the project to a point where it became unrealistic? Because you know, we tend, as filmmakers, creatives, we tend to get carried away with the vision and you know visuals. We're like, oh my gosh, wait, wait. What if we did anymore wait, wait. What if we throw in visual effects? How, what is that like in the fish in the music side? And how did you tell us how you were able to manage that expectation of um going from big while trying to stay close to your vision?

Brooks Leibee: 36:58

yeah, I have this thing where, like, I tend to really dream big at the beginning and then it's shrunk um, but like it's. Yeah, it's funny because every project where there's like a um talks of a budget, I'm like, man, yeah, bring up the 100 piece orchestra. Like, big, big, I need everything, um, but then downsizing that it always turns out that way. So like, literally, I had to talk to myself and like, just like borderline meditate and be like, stop doing that, because you're gonna, uh, you're gonna put yourself into like a perpetual depression because it's like, yeah, it's like, it's like, oh man, I can't, I can't get the orchestra this time. Oh man, I can't get the orchestra this time.

Brooks Leibee: 37:51

Um, but like, my most recent thing was uh, with a friend from um undergrad who's's now at Howard getting her master's in film and she did her thesis film, and that was like the first project in a while where I thought like, yeah, let's keep it small, there's a budget, but that's not said anything that we already know won't happen. Um, and it created one of, I think, the coolest scores I I've done and uh, it is fully like samples, but we did record musicians. Um, there was enough money set aside to uh, book a studio in North Carolina and hire musicians. I think we had six musicians all cellists, one bass player and it's a horror score, so I knew throwing a little bit of dirt and nastiness in there. And cellists love playing crazy loud, chromatic stuff, borderline metal. You know shredding these things, and the musicians were for a little bit from like local Myrtle Beach and Wilmington North Carolina musicians, but I think that really helped create like a unique sound.

Brooks Leibee: 39:14

So doing that I think really helped and that was almost like, uh, like a life reward or a life confirmation of being like hey, yeah, it's fine to just stay small and get as most as get as much as you can out of that, because I mean, it sounds incredible, it's massive. There are some tracks on my website that you can hear and they killed it the samples. If you work hard enough, you can get to a point where like samples sound like it's all recorded in the same room. There's a lot of engineering that goes into that and a lot of programming with the different articulations that come with sample libraries etc. But if you find the right stuff, you know, and you work with it long enough, then you could really engineer something cool that sounds realistic and even if you sound design and do crazy stuff with it, it sounds like it just works.

Brooks Leibee: 40:22

But with Legacy that was like an early thing where, like I think it helped not being in the composer's chair because working with Dallas and him keeping small and all of that was samples Nothing was reported, I think, and that really helped because the story of it being so contained and it's a father and son on the run and a hideout, you know it's it's a really contained story and it really focuses on like their connection out.

Brooks Leibee: 40:57

You know it's it's a really contained story and it really focuses on like their connection because even though there's like this massive stake of this other world, otherworldly power and it's this sci-fi, bigger than the world they live in thing, um, keeping it small and like rooted in like this like familial connection with the score, it being so like intimate and small. That really helped, I think with the, that story, um, and then it goes to like the storytelling part of it. If it's a huge project where obviously, you know, if it's like a big, like fantasy thing uh, I mean star wars there are. I don't think I don't think there is a score that that went small. It's all pretty intense and huge and that's just how star wars is so like. If you get a star wars project, you know it's probably gonna be big, but that's usually what the world and the story needs. Yeah.

Brooks Leibee: 42:02

Going back to God of War, I believe that score started out really small because it was an intimate story and this changes every now and then because I read different things about the process. But at one point I read that because it was so intimate, uh bear, the composer pitched it all being like solo instruments, like a, like a small band of like nordic and, uh, european instruments.

Brooks Leibee: 42:32

Um, and as they kept developing the game and it got bigger and bigger, that's when they were like, okay, yeah, yeah, we need like crazy huge orchestra. It needs to feel cinematic and huge. And he already wrote all the small band stuff, so all the intimate moments in the score. He already has that laid out. So then, once it opens back up, that's when the orchestra comes in the choir um, all these huge parts of it, uh, it's this like shriek and expand effect that I think really works with that score, because it goes into me and then it goes big, um, and using that as like a story crutch, I mean, I think in the end, it all, it all counts on the story of the film or the video game. And then going back to like expectations, uh, that's what you should keep in mind. It's like what does? What does the project really need? And that should help.

Brooks Leibee: 43:32

Um, and then also like getting out of your own way, because I think, starting big in scale, in mind that limits, like the possibilities that are there in the project, just inherently there, that the project's giving you, you just need to set aside those like oh yeah, just big orchestra, you know the standard, and then you could really do something special I think.

Keno Manuel: 44:01

I don't think people realize just how powerful having restrictions and constraints on your project can be, because, whereas when everything is endless, you are now stuck with this, options, paralysis. You're just like, oh, I want this, but I don't know if I want that or this and this and that, whereas if you know that you have strict rules, I could I do. You know what I'm seeing. I could see you just doing the composing and you're just doing this. My god, this project's so cool. But then you're going through the um, I don't know what, uh, music software like fo studio or able 10, but I could just see you doing this. Okay, I like this string, ding Wait. No, this bell, wait, wait, wait, wait. And then, before you know it, you have such a huge amount of collection of sounds that you're not even going to put in. You just spend hours choosing Because the scale of the project is just so big.

Keno Manuel: 44:54

A couple of things of the projects, just so big. A couple things I wanted to. Can you tell us the? How involved are you with um? How involved are you with between composing the songs for the films and video games? Let's focus on the films. How involved are you when it comes to that collaboration side?

Brooks Leibee: 45:11

I mean, there's a project that I've been talking to like the editor, cause he's also doing like the sound and stuff, um, and there's there's conversation there. I mean, it's not always on, like the smaller projects, usually you don't talk to the editor at all or any other sound people, okay, um, but that's that's just because, like, just how small the the team is, usually like the director plays the middleman or, uh, whoever, whoever you're talking to, but on certain projects, including this one recently, um, the editor and I have been talking because sound design and the music is really important and they go hand in hand in this project. Uh, narratively, there's a piano, so there's been talking, there's been talk of like the score being all piano and, um, just like going interesting with that because it's also horror, so a lot of detune stuff and atmosphere, um, but with that then it's also like the editor is already incorporating certain sound effects that are kind of musical, musical, um, but they're purely just for effect um, and for him to edit too. So, having that conversation and being like, yeah, so like this is, this is happening here and it kind of covers this frequency. So, whatever you write, you might want to be up or up above it or below it, so then it's not finding with each other and then people can hear the, the, the layers to it, and that's kind of the main thing. It's like if you do talk to the sound or editor guy, it's going to be like hey, yeah, so this sounds here, just letting you know in case something needs to change or if we need to change something.

Brooks Leibee: 46:54

I hear stories all the time of like, ah, what was it? I think it was God of War is going to be mentioned a lot, because Averro was talking about this one thing. It was either God of War or Rings of Power. It was one of those. It was a fantasy square and it was Rings of Power because he was talking, or the sound. People were talking to him and they were like, yeah, yeah, you need to change this one part in the music because it's fighting with the dialogue or we can't use this. Just letting you know like this track won't, this part of the score won't be used.

Brooks Leibee: 47:33

And Bear fought back and he was like this part of the score is extremely important to tell the story okay because it's all thematic and if you've seen rings of power, it's like there is a theme that changes over the course of the show. Um, it starts as one and it becomes another, thematically and story-wise, and that was what was happening.

Brooks Leibee: 47:54

There was there's like a, a theme that plays, and it was because of the instrument that he used that had the same sort of sound and timbre with the actor that was talking, so the dialogue was being affected and he was like hold on and then within an hour he re-recorded on a different instrument. Luckily it wasn't like a big orchestra, so it didn't have to take a week to re-recorded on a different instrument. Luckily it wasn't. It wasn't like a big orchestra, so it didn't. It didn't have to take a week to re-record it. Um a week or a month, it can vary. The it was like a uh, one of the solo instruments and uh, re-recorded that, sent it back and that was fine. So there's a lot of that sort of stuff too. Or, on bigger projects, you might have a lot more uh conversation and things to consider between, like the different lanes of post audio. You might merge.

Keno Manuel: 48:49

You might merge a few times I don't think people understand well enough, like I feel like there's a misconception that you just listen to it and just pick a pick a sound and just drop it in the timeline just because it sounds good. Which leads me to the next question as a music composer, when you choose the sounds, can tell us how let's say, happiness, what does that sound like to you and how are you able to put something together to to evoke that specific emotion for happiness, the same way for sadness, depression, joy, surprise. Walk us through your process of choosing sounds and how you're able to put it together to create that specific emotion, especially when you connect that from audio and film. Cause cause we all know violence, all know violins are sad.

Brooks Leibee: 49:41

That's the crazy thing. A violin can also be very bright and jovial what Really? So that's like absolutely yeah, man, what. I could spend an hour trying to come up with an example.

Keno Manuel: 49:56

All right, we're going to give you five minutes. Go, let's go.

Brooks Leibee: 50:01

Like when writing the instrument, and how you treat the instrument is always part of it. There's the whole music theory side of it, but also, like, my knowledge of music theory is very limited.

Brooks Leibee: 50:16

Okay so with my writing. It's a lot just of sound and feeling. So I'm always going across the keys trying to find the right chord or the right note to start with, and sometimes even in the DAW that I use, sometimes I'm just putting in the notes, you know, command, click, I'm just drawing it in and sometimes you find the melody that way, whether it's a melody or whether it's a chord, oh yeah, I think a good example on a short film I did a documentary. There's a behind the scenes documentary about a documentary and it has this closing crescendo that features a violin on the top line and it's a chamber orchestra. It's nothing big, it's all samples too, but it's this chamber orchestra.

Brooks Leibee: 51:18

It's nothing big, it's all samples too, but it's this like happy ending and the way you write it and there is a music theory thing to this. It's like the top line always ascends, no matter how the chord changes. I forget whose theory this is, but doing that you know you reach this, reach this like apex of it. And in the certain sample that I used, if you, if you hit a key a certain way, it ties the note together because they recorded the violin like it's like sliding up the neck, so instead of it just like changing do, do.

Brooks Leibee: 51:53

It's like do so. It's like this, like singing color to it with like violins and cellos and violas. There are no frets, so you can, you can add little texture, things like that, where like you can shift the note with a slide or like you can bend it or how you bow it. Um, it's just this really bright color to it and it really like make. It almost makes like a shimmer, so it's almost like uh, when you see, like water and like the little light glistens off the top um, it like adds that effect and it's just like this really bright and happy feeling, which is funny because that's just how I write.

Brooks Leibee: 52:34

I just write what I hear and if it makes me feel bright and happy, I mean it could feel different for someone else. But, um, that, that's like, that's like the goal there. It's like how does that, how does it, how does it make me feel, um, this reactionary of the film and if I feel like it ties to the, the beats of the story and well, you just said reminds.

Keno Manuel: 52:55

Please tell me you've seen the element of no, the, uh, the close counter of dirt, yeah, close encounters, the third kind, and at the end. And then the lights. Please tell me you know what I'm talking about, the lights.

Brooks Leibee: 53:09

And then absolutely no one close encounters is one of my favorites like that scene is so iconic.

Keno Manuel: 53:15

It's just the way they were able to tell the story with the lights. But the most important, it wasn't when I watched that, it wasn't even the, it wasn't even the, the lights, but it was the music that that they paired visually. Visually and audio, um, what's that? Sonically it was that. It was like it's like, bro, I can't. When you just described what you were talking about with the emotions, it also another movie comes up Ratatouille, ratatouille. I don't know how to say that.

Keno Manuel: 53:46

When they were eating the food and you see the colors. But you see the music and then it's just it's so beautifully well done and the whole movie Inside Out Pixar, inside Out the happiness, emotions, and then, especially when riley was sad you have bro, oh my gosh, that's such a unique score too, like michael giacchino who did both, uh, he did ratatouille and he did wait.

Brooks Leibee: 54:10

Really, what was. What was the other one you just mentioned? Uh, inside out, okay, yeah, and inside out and ratatouille, um, and they're very different scores, but yeah, he, uh, I mean, there's the. That's actually a great example of the half of the shift between a violin, because, yes, you have like the happy, and then it, and then it can shift into oh, oh no, his wife's dying. Yes, spoiler for the opening, and then it gets all sad. It all depends on the performance and how it's written. But then, yeah, ratatouille also is so cool.

Brooks Leibee: 54:55

Up, I think I was talking about Up, not inside out yes, um, but inside out is such a unique score for him because it's like he usually goes all big and does orchestra. But then I think inside out was a lot of like smaller. There were like some synths in there, more like more shimmery stuff, sound design, almost, which there was also a lot of sound design in music, but, um, in the film side there's the foley and sound design of that, um, but in music usually it's like the synths or if like, uh, we, we put a recording through something that makes it sound deeper, or we throw an eq on on something because it's too bassy and it's cutting something else out. Um, I mean, borderline mastering is basically sound design for for the orchestra, because it has to sound clear and usually the recordings don't come out how you want it.

Keno Manuel: 55:52

But yeah, what is one? One of the biggest misconception that you often hear from people when it comes to your work. You kind of said it earlier.

Brooks Leibee: 55:59

You said, it's more than just finding a track and like clicking it into the timeline, with a lot of work now, because starting out I did a lot of pro bono work, lot of pro bono work and, um, I mean I made a lot of connections through pro bono stuff and working with people, um on projects that were pro bono. I can't remember if legacy was paid um, but that was, that was for oif, I think. Usually all that stuff's pro bon. So it's like that sets an expectation, I think with the amount of work someone does. And that goes into the thing of like how much are you worth? And that kind of goes into the whole business side of it. Because I mean, someone recently was like it's not show fun, it's show business. Like it's not show fun, it's show business.

Brooks Leibee: 56:59

And if you, if you don't set a dollar to your name early, that gives people the opportunity to really take advantage. And, um, I mean I've been on the other side of the coin where people felt took an advantage, taken advantage of by me, that's not a great feeling. So then you have to confront that and fix that. So then you stop that and then also you prepare yourself for that not to happen to you. Um, so like one misconception is, like, writing music is very time consuming and if you're hiring musicians, I mean the budget takes care of that, but then usually what's left of that afterwards? That's then what the composer pockets or puts into the business, or or the next thing. Okay, um, but if it's like a solo thing and it's just the composer, it's just what's in their tool set, then I mean that. That. That then spikes up what that dollar amount would be so like.

Brooks Leibee: 57:58

If you itemize everything, how much does your sample set cost? How much is the toolkit? If you're working with a mixer, what do they usually ask for or like if you're using a facility your DAW, I mean, how expensive is that? If you're using a facility, um, your daw, I mean how expensive is, is that? If you're using a subscription for certain things, okay, take that into account and then work with your collaborators. You can talk with them and say, hey, if I charge this much, what do you think of this? Or, um, if you have this need for this thing, how much would that? How much would I charge someone? Or think, um, and then see what people think about that, because that can, that can one affect the relationship that you have with people business-wise, because, okay, if you set something too high then it's uh, a struggle for them them to work with you, and if you find it too low, then you're kind of cheating yourself. They kind of turned into like a business TED talk.

Keno Manuel: 59:09

Almost we just took a 180 from personal to business, which is perfect because that's okay. Walk us through a time in your life, in your, your career, how you were able to get through the time when you felt like you were taking advantage of, and how you learned from that. Because, dude, being taken advantage sucks absolutely. Yeah, it breaks your heart, makes you want to say f you to the career, it makes you want to sell all of your gear and say I'm never coming back and then only to come back. This, the whole entire thing is like a it's like a toxic relationship. So again, so walk us through how.

Brooks Leibee: 59:45

Walk us through the time that you had to, where you went through that I'm gonna keep it really broad, not say any names or anything, because of course yeah, this video is nda.

Keno Manuel: 59:55

The names in this video have been changed to protect their identities yes, john smith yes, john smith or johnny john, apple seed that's what apple uses. There we go a few years ago um.

Brooks Leibee: 1:00:08

This was after orlando this is like 2022 ish.

Brooks Leibee: 1:00:13

Um, and this is the last time that I ever really like did everything project Okay, cause I kind of, really kind of, did everything. Um, it was for someone else, they were directing, they wrote it. Um, they came in on it, they came out of town and uh, utilized uh, like my bedroom as like a set. Okay, uh, we were borrowing a camera from a friend and we were filming this like proof of concept short film, like trailer sort of thing, and uh, I mean, most of it was very much like volunteer, like this is pro bono, we're going to be doing this as like a thing It'll be fun. And it got to the point where, like later on, after it's shot and everything, and they left, they went back out of state and then it's in like editing.

Brooks Leibee: 1:01:12

I was also doing the editing and the audio and just in music and I did original music for it too. So literally did almost everything other than I think I think audio we did. Production wise was like I think it was on board. We just used like an external XLR sort of thing. It was like it was like it was a Canon C 200 I think, and there was like a XLR output that we were input that we got from another external microphone and, uh, that was all internal, I don't remember if we did any, I think external.

Brooks Leibee: 1:01:47

And then music side, editing side, um was all there and he did like a visual effect and like a logo um there, but thinking of like wow, and like a logo there, but thinking of like wow, this is a lot of work for no monetary gain Little if any. I don't remember being paid and we had talked about that down the road because things changed, because it was proving to be more work than what was initially considered. And just talking with other collaborators and they're like, yeah, if this is, if this is what you're doing and you're doing this much, they should reasonably be able to come to an agreement of like.

Brooks Leibee: 1:02:38

Hey yeah, sure, I mean, if we want to, you know, cut up certain payments and do parts or just like, come to a flat rate agreement, cause in the end it really it all came down to that. There was a lack of consideration of time after the fact of a separate agreement. I think we both set expectations separately and then they kind of fought with each other in the end, those expectations, um, so that left me and the other collaborators then like in a weird bubble of like hmm, yeah, it's a bit odd, let's do that again. But then meanwhile, the person we worked with once it was out was gaining all this traction. They're utilizing it for Kickstarters, they're raising funds and with little to no thanks, like monet, like not I'm not entirely, uh, mentioning credit, uh, other than, like, typing a name in the description, um of like the youtube upload, it was all kind of just centered on this one person who is in it.

Brooks Leibee: 1:04:17

They were also the actor, they wrote it. It's kind of like their passion project, so of course, they're very much in love with it. But then you work with people and if someone does the work, you would think, hey, let's put their name out there, maybe if we're not going to pay them, which didn't happen. So it's like a long list of all these strange things that could have easily been avoided and I think that in the end impacted the friendship side of that, because we were, we are friends. I'm not going to say we were friends because that's poor spirited, poor spirited, we are friends. So you kind of have weird expectations, or not weird expectations. You have expectations of how certain things should go and then once it's weird in a professional or business side then, it's disappointing, I guess, is the word.

Brooks Leibee: 1:05:28

So there's that and I guess that's like the. That kind of ties into the misconception of. That goes both ways between client and composer or filmmaker or whatever you do is like knowing how much you're worth, cause I mean, with with the traction that I got, there were so many compliments about how the film looked and how it sounded. The short project kind of getting that attention, uh, and giving thanks as if it was due from them is a weird. Yeah, it's like a. It's kind of an uncomfortable thing to talk about, but it's like it's never really been publicly or even outspokenly discussed. It's all kind of just been like within a group. Um, so I don't know, I don't know if, uh, I don't know if I'm gonna get a dm in a week after after you know if they see this.

Keno Manuel: 1:06:47

But yeah, thank you seriously, thank you for sharing uh, for being open enough to uh share that story. And second, again, it takes a lot of courage to admit what we went through and and hopes that other people, when they do listen to your story, they won't make the same mistake, and I think that's something to be proud of. Sure, it was freaking terrible, but I think that's one of the things that you can, you know, have to treat it as like a chip on your shoulder, but rather as something that you can embrace and learn from it so you know you wouldn't be the person you are now, and so thank you so much for sharing that story With the names changed.

Brooks Leibee: 1:07:24

Yeah, of course, yeah, john.

Keno Manuel: 1:07:27

Smith, because I understand the feeling of being taken advantage of, because I did go through an experience. Um, long story short is basically shot everything for them, only to come to find out that they wanted all the raw footage and when I refused, they took all the remaining footage and send it off to somebody in la and colligated the entire thing and used all this stuff that they didn't even want in the first place and called it as a better project compared to mine.

Keno Manuel: 1:07:57

So I understand, that's disrespectful huh yeah, that's disrespectful though yo, I just feel like in this, even as a music composer, there's so many shiny things in this career that you have chosen. That's that that seems so attractive, but when you get down into the trenches, it starts to feel like it's so hard to give yourself confidence in knowing that you're worth is actually what you're worth, and then have to balance that between the people that you come across as well as the experiences that you will have for yourself. It's so difficult. So, again, that is why I am so grateful and thank you for sharing that story. It just cheers to the ones that suffer through our creative industry.

Brooks Leibee: 1:08:45

Bro, it's just yeah, yeah and um well with the business side.

Keno Manuel: 1:08:50

It's just yeah, yeah and um well with the business side. It's just like it's painful. I'm serious, it is painful. Who is what is one hero that you look up to, that inspire all of that, inspire all of your work? Who's that one hero? Hero to you?

Brooks Leibee: 1:09:10

I don't know if I have a single hero which is kind of it's like a boring answer what han simmer han simmer, that was yeah, he's definitely, I think I.

Brooks Leibee: 1:09:22

That's why I, that's why that's where I appreciate him. Um, I don't find a lot of inspiration from his stuff, other than some recent things like the creator and uh, uh, there was another score he did recently. Oh, june, yeah, all of his June stuff's really cool. Um, but from I don't know, there's like a like cherry picking of certain things that I take away from him. But other than that, like, what I appreciate hans is that he's a good gateway for people to get into film music because he writes in a way that is like it's a borderline, but it's like a a bridge between how pop producers write and composers, right. And then he has like crazy outbursts like Dune, that are very obscure and very sound design focused. And then you have more illustrative composing stuff, like his Kung Fu Panda. His stuff for Kung Fu Panda is really well written and colorful and has a lot of crazy orchestral elements and techniques, orchestral elements and techniques. And like Bear McCreary, he has a company where he passes things off to smaller composers and things like that In the composer industry.

Brooks Leibee: 1:10:38

It's almost like a joke now that people say with the cons, but it's a realistic thing If you have a big company and you're as big as he is, you're going to have employees and that's a. This is a realistic part of the business. But with nowadays, there's a lot of, there's a lot of names, a lot of things that I, that I listen to, that that I I soak things up from. I always say that I'm like a sponge when I'm listening to music, usually there's something in there that I that I'm putting away in the back of, in the back of the cabinet, uh, just to to use for later and find something to to utilize, uh, like a certain idea or a certain thing to reference, or, you know, maybe it's something that sparks another idea uh, but even recently and this is all to thank Bradley Cooper for, because the film Maestro introduced me to Leonard Bernstein, who is one of America's most famous conductors and he's also a great composer great composer, um, but watching that movie, it was stuff that he didn't write even, which sounds insulting, but it was stuff that he conducted, that he like pulled the life source out of, yeah, and brought out these crazy performances, um, historically, like, you can go back and listen to these recordings and, if you watch the movie, the performances that they did with, like, the london symphony orchestra and um, at, like carnegie hall, a lot of really illustrious orchestras recording for that movie.

Brooks Leibee: 1:12:19

Um, there's one collection of stuff that I always revisit now and it's shaping a lot of how I, how I, write recently. Most infamous thing, I think, is it's the masses. I'm blanking on who, on who composed it, but there's this last movement in it that is this like massive thing, huge orchestra, huge choir yeah but it does that thing where it goes from intimate to big, intimate to big and it plays a lot with scale.

Brooks Leibee: 1:12:53

Um, and it's from like years ago. It's, it's an older piece, it uh collection of work early 1900s so it's like way ahead of its time. I think there's a lot of that stuff that's used today for films and things like that. So looking back to certain things like that and the rite of spring is a crazy collection of stuff to really focus on. Uh, I think that's stravinsky. He does like some nasty, angry stuff it's like this, like russian thing, and it's huge.

Brooks Leibee: 1:13:30

There's I think it's historically hit one of his larger, largest orchestras. Uh, because all the sections are ridiculous and a lot of really nasty articulation. So when I say nasty, it's like, you know, the horns are are fluttering and the All the winds are screaming, almost the cellos are grinding at their strings. I could go on for hours. But it's the textures that are used in a lot of films, modern textures and a lot of techniques that are used that are just rooted far back, you know, 1914, the early 1900s and even further, and there's stuff that's used nowadays that people really like, and I think it's so interesting that all this stuff can be found sprinkled throughout, like you know, the history of music and how things can be repurposed or continued.

Keno Manuel: 1:14:34

Yeah, it's just really it's this really interesting thing, um, that I find there and the story, historical, uh, period where you just, for some reason, are so drawn to um and you like implementing some of the sounds that you've heard from a specific historical period into your work, because it sounds like you're interested in classical and orchestra based off of what you have described so far.

Brooks Leibee: 1:15:01

When I was in grade school. That's where I started my music stuff, my music learning. Yeah. Music school. So I started on viola and I started to learn cello. So, like being, that's where I started, so all the strings that's where. That's where brooks began with his obsession that's the sound.

Brooks Leibee: 1:15:23

That's the music sound for the flashback yeah, little brooks, I remember it like it was yesterday. But, yeah, my love, my love for the orchestra hasn't shifted at all, and I think it's even more so now than ever. Um, even if, even if I do a score, that's, that is synth leading or it's more sound design there will, I'll always find a way. I'll always find a way to get the orchestra in there or some kind of orchestral instrument or some kind of acoustic thing, because I love the acoustic, I love, I love sound, I love instruments that just sound incredible off the bat.

Brooks Leibee: 1:16:11

You don't have to augment anything, you don't have to do anything crazy. So even quirky instruments like the banjo. I love the banjo so much because you can make some crazy noises with the banjo, absolutely. I mean there's different kinds of banjos. I'm about to bubble gump some banjos.

Brooks Leibee: 1:16:33

I have a resonant banjo that has this chamber that makes a very unique resonant sound. So the instrument's just designed to be loud and contain this sustained note and banjos have that timbre where it's kind of tinny. It almost sounds like a string in a tin can. It's got a very particular sound. But then you use it on scores like Last of Us Part II because Gustavo used banjo for that instead of the ronroko for the first game and you can get some really interesting sounds out of it. I mean they even just they even bowed. They bowed the banjo, which is such a cool modern sound Bowing guitars, bowing banjos, bowing whatever with a string and it's yeah, I don't know, it just creates a really interesting sound and that's the main thing.

Brooks Leibee: 1:17:32

That's the thing with like having fun with it. It's like you can get this, you can get an orchestra, orchestral instrument, um, but then if you just start beating it up, you know I have a cello, I have a violin, I have a guitar, it's, and it's all stuff that I don't play in a sense. Okay, I can make noises out of them, I can play my viola, but other than that I don't have much training in anything else. But with the cello, it's all just. It's all mainly used for sound design and texture and adding a little bit of life to samples. If I can't hire a cellist who knows how to play, um, then it'll be, it'll be me, it'll be me beating up my cello.

Keno Manuel: 1:18:19

There was one part that I love that you said I I play all these instruments, but I don't play them in a sense, which led me to think about the specific saying um, master of all, master of none, that kind of thing. So where? Yes, I'm really curious how you say you may not be a master in all of the instruments where are your biggest strengths when it comes to putting all of them together?

Brooks Leibee: 1:18:42

with composers, you have to kind of know how the instruments work. So then it's like you have the sample set in front of you.

Brooks Leibee: 1:18:50

Um, and with how libraries, like sample libraries, are made, you know yeah everything's mapped to a key and the software developers then can make them sound realistic by how much they record and how much, how much they tie the notes or or expressions or articulations they choose to record. Okay, so then, tying from the player there in the recording, knowing how the instruments work and where their strengths are at, if that makes sense, really helps in terms of when you're writing. I think that's just where my strength is. I think I am a really good utilizer of the instruments, their various strengths, and sometimes the weaknesses are their strengths too, because I'm trying to think of an example with what's your kryptonite to your music skills, buddy?

Keno Manuel: 1:19:56

tell us my kryptonite. Yeah, because you said you.

Brooks Leibee: 1:19:59

You said weakness is also your strengths they all have their their peaks, but they also have their, have their their falls. So like say, a certain instrument can't or doesn't sound great at a certain okay range. Um, if you're, if the film kind of calls for something strange sounding, use that. You know that might be better than anything else. With me, I don't know, man, I have, I have so many things that I don't like to use. It's funny because it's all just in my mind, I guess.

Brooks Leibee: 1:20:38

Yeah one of my strengths is not guitar writing. Okay, I can't read chord sheets or whatever they're called tabs, yeah, I can't read that. So whenever I'm like mapping things out on a keyboard for a guitar, I mean in my head I already know it sounds wrong because it's not how guitars are played. I mean you have to. I feel like you need to have the knowledge of a guitar to make it sound really convincing on keys, um, but then that's like the strengths of like I have training with classical boat instruments so I tend to know where, where on the keyboard they they sound the best.

Brooks Leibee: 1:21:22

Obviously, like there's like the family of like violins are are high, violas are in the middle, cellos are between the lowest range and then basses are the lowest range. Um, same with horns, um, or brass instruments. With that it's like trumpets, horns, trombones, tuba. You don't, you don't necessarily want to play that at its highest range because it sounds kind of crazy. Um, and like you can hear like a lot, like the spit running through it and things like that. So like uh, but if, hey, but if the film calls for something that might need that, then go for it. Uh, same with like solo bass, trombone, with the microphones, like right up right up to the trombone with a microphone, like right up, right up to the right up to the uh, the cone or the horn or the bell. I think that's what it's called. You don't want to record that usually, but hey, it might work for your project um, well, okay, wow, that's just all.

Keno Manuel: 1:22:27

This is reminds.

Keno Manuel: 1:22:28

Oh man, dude, you have so okay if you need a guitar player, get a guitar player I remember on your instagram you had this drawings of dinosaurs and then you slowly delved into um, like the I don't know how you say paleo, paleo, like miss, some dinosaur era, whatever, pill I don't know how to say those words.

Keno Manuel: 1:22:53

Okay, I'm not, I'm not a I'm not a dinosaur expert, but I've seen your work, that, especially those um artwork that you put out, and then now it now it's just like what is up with the dinosaurs. It's so cool because, ah, tell it, yeah, because, like I see that you mentioned earlier that freaking jurassic park right there. All I could think of in my head is like you had to be inspired by that movie and the way one of the iconic scene was when t-rex uh started, uh, to attack the, the people with the cars and you. And, yeah, after hearing what you were describing with the music, I can hear the, how they were able to increase the intensity and the all of that. What a sum of dinosaurs, dude. Tell us about that.

Brooks Leibee: 1:23:39

It's just that it's Jurassic Park, that, yeah, that was like the, the that was. That was the seed that was planted and I think it changed a lot of people's lives. And I mean it came out before I was born and that dated me. But the movie, I think, changed a lot of people's lives and it changed mine for like one, just making me obsessed with prehistory and the things we find in the ground. I think that's really interesting, prehistory and and the things we find in the ground. I think that's really interesting. But also, um, like the filmmaking side of that, bringing things to life like that. You know, that was the first time that ever really happened in the film industry and it changed vfx. It just changed vfx. They, they came out and and and and done did it. And, uh, they and Jeff Goldblum's words and Phil Tippett's words, they, they caused a whole, whole slew, a whole side of the industry to go extinct in a way. Uh, no pun intended Literally.

Brooks Leibee: 1:24:44

And the music side of it also is one of those things where it's like, yeah, the music from Jurassic Park is really iconic. That and close encounters, I think are probably my favorite things that Williams has done and that's what I revisit a lot, and the same with, like Stravinsky and the right of spring. There's a lot of that stuff that Williams uses even still today, a lot of those techniques and and things like that. So if you look, if you go back and listen to, um, the masses and and the riot of spring, you'll hear a lot of close encounters. You'll hear a lot of jurassic park, star wars, even, um, it just made me want to, maybe want to make stuff like that. You know, maybe want to really work to, to create, change, like, like they did. I mean it might sound like a selfish thing, but it's like I don't know. I feel like, if you have, if you want to set goals, that's that's the great example of like they did that back then. People are still doing it today.

Brooks Leibee: 1:25:50

I mean, vfx changed again with the creator. I mean that was really innovative film and I'm sure that inspired a lot of people as well. That's the thing it just inspired me to, to want to to create and want to work in this industry, and it sparked that realization of like, wow, yeah, this, this could be a job, and it's, and it's, it's it's reminded to me every few years where people do this for a living and they don't have to make a compromise to like go to their day job and then come back and make this crazy thing that changes everything. Um and same with with paleontology. It's like this. It's this reminder of how big, yet small the world is, um, and how limited time is. It's like a existential thing there. It's really interesting.

Brooks Leibee: 1:26:39

Um because, yeah, because, dinosaurs were here longer than we were, okay uh, according to the fossil record and all that, and we haven't been here for that long and for something as grand as as these things, as these things were, you know yeah and they're gone.

Brooks Leibee: 1:27:04

Like that. That's crazy to me. That's like the most, most mind bending thing in this world like that, things like this existed and we have traces of everything and we keep record of it. We're able to find that stuff. That's also crazy to me. I know there's people that argue against it and they're like, how do we really know? But once you research it enough enough it's it'll break your mind with how much stuff is out there. Um, and you know, having little collectibles like that's really nice. So if you like, toys, it's okay.

Keno Manuel: 1:27:42

It's okay, I have a. I have a box of spider-man action figures, all right, okay, yeah, exactly exactly so. We're all good. Look, that's why we said those popular kids they're so freaking lame. Us, dude, we are the popular kids. We enjoy the things that they don't. I mean, come on now.

Keno Manuel: 1:28:02

Um well, with that being said um, I remember when we were on this one project, the entrance, um I, you recently won the best music for that project and I, I I have to say congratulations to that. It's gotta be thank you. It's gotta be one of those feelings where it's it helped validate your um concerns when it comes to navigating this career, because you know we need validation for what we do and oftentimes when we don't get any of that.

Keno Manuel: 1:28:36

We're just like fuck y'all, I'm out. So how did it feel to have that achievement, and what is the next achievement that you're looking to get after having experienced that win for you With the few?

Brooks Leibee: 1:28:49

like awards that I'm grateful to have received with, like film festivals, and that recognition's awesome. And that score was a collaboration with Ben, with Ben Schepler, and I was doing something that day. I forget I was out of town or maybe I moved back. I forget what time this was, but yeah, I think I did move back because I had to come back, I think for entrance and a few other films, and Ben went to the ceremony and I'm glad he was there because with the collaborative effort, one of us needs to get that one once, one of us needs to get that light shined on us. And we both we both got this, got this reward, we both recognized for it.

Brooks Leibee: 1:29:37

And the yeah, the, that project's also really cool and a cool way of like, like keeping small but expanding, that's a, that's a whole thing, um, but with that it was really really validating and also really opened up the like, the possibilities of collaboration, um, because you always see, sometimes with soundtracks, usually it's not just one name, usually it's like a weird name, like, uh, the, the video game, alien isolation and the horizon games. There's a duo on there called the flight. It almost sounds like a band, um, but it's just, they're two composers for media and they they collaborate on everything, uh same with a few other ones that I'm not mentioning. But like, yeah, that was a really fun process and once you find someone who you gel with and can collaborate with, that's a great time, because then I don't know it takes a sorry bless you.

Brooks Leibee: 1:30:41

It takes, it, takes the weight off of you a little bit, and same with them. Yeah, that makes it more, it makes it more comfortable, and then also like they bring stuff to the table that you wouldn't have and again, that's fine, it's, it's really cool and for future goals or aspirations. I mean, I just want to keep making cool stuff and keep making connections and collaborating with people and, um, you know, the, the recognition and the reception is nice and all that sort of thing for like a non-boring answer, I guess, or maybe this is the boring answer.

Brooks Leibee: 1:31:22

the goal I think for forward on is like officially releasing music and and trying to receive like royalties and try and receive something, uh, as a business to help grow and open that side of the business where there is a string of income that comes from it, and I don't know, is that a weird answer? It's like it makes it kind of seem weird, but I do really just want to make cool stuff with people and and release it and make it a job but have fun with it and no that yeah, I guess that's the, that's the longterm.

Brooks Leibee: 1:32:07

Just make it, make it the job, because I love it. I love it so much. I want to do this forever and not have it feel like work and not feel like you have to compromise. I think that's the big next thing.

Keno Manuel: 1:32:22

I'm glad that you have that long-term vision, because one of the things that I remember when I did the research on you is after a couple of wins there, I saw that the next one, I think, is the Kickstarter for your album. Dude, how are you feeling? Because I can see the album that you produce? Especially in the long term, you would have this collection of work. I think the right term is discography.

Brooks Leibee: 1:32:52

Speech impediment guys, guys, I can't speak, but with the kickstarter for your album.

Keno Manuel: 1:32:57

What, how was that?

Brooks Leibee: 1:32:59

um, yeah, so that album is it's in this stage again where it's starting to to shape up into something better. I think, yeah, uh, because the window for the initial kickstarter was it was, it was a minute ago. I was another thing where, like, really, you start with this big expectation and, uh, and you kind of overshoot okay, um, I did that. I did that with this and a lot of, a lot of meditation, a lot of like just thinking on it and writing and writing and writing and coming up with stuff, um, and it's changed, I think, for the better, where, instead of it being like this one release, it's going to be this one uh, like collection of stuff. It's going to be multiple releases.

Brooks Leibee: 1:33:51

This is going to be down the road I'm not in a rush at all getting it off the ground and I think the music that will be written for it some of the stuff's going to stay the same as it is, maybe rewritten, maybe refreshed and modernized with, like, how techniques change and tool sets change and hardware and who I'm working with.

Brooks Leibee: 1:34:11

The goal for it has changed, and I think the music that will come with it will be even better than the music that was written for it previously and this is this is something with collaborators, with Dallas, the composer from legacy, and Leo, who is a talented composer in Germany. He is writing some stuff for it and there's a lot of collaboration and discussion happening with that. Um, even now, as it's changing, like they're aware that it's being pushed further and it's uh, evolving for lack of a better word, evolving is a good word for it's evolving for lack of a better word, evolving is a good word for it. And yeah, that's kind of where it is now. So it's not like it's not not happening, but it's going to take a little longer, I think, for it to cook, and I think that's just where it is right now.

Keno Manuel: 1:35:08

So that's the thing that you said earlier about the producing the album is how you're constantly evolving with new techniques, and all that I gotta ask, dude, one is a we all struggle with this perfection, perfectionism, with our artwork where we think, we think, okay, this is good.

Keno Manuel: 1:35:26

But then you have this tilt in your head. It's like, nah, this, this is missing something, even though other people, when they hear your work, they're like brooks, what are you doing? This? This, this sounds good. You're like no, it sounds like shit. I need to fix it, I need to make it for. So, with that being a evolving, never-ending evolving process for your album, at what point do you do you tell yourself that it's ready? Because that's really hard.

Brooks Leibee: 1:35:53

You kind of have to yeah, you have to just tell yourself like that's why deadlines are good to set. So then you know you, you hold yourself accountable, yeah and uh. It's like this thing where, uh, if you set a deadline for yourself, it keeps you from going overboard and keeps you from letting things cook. And when I say that things can go a little too long, I think, and if you have this anchor of like okay, I need to stop at this point, that kind of sets you up to go ahead and just be okay with what you have. And a lot of times it'll be that of like yeah, sound somewhere. Someone person's like yeah, sounds great. But then in the back of my mind I'm like no, but this one, note this one. There's literally just this one thing that no one else is going to notice. Um, but every time I hear it it's going to scream at me.

Keno Manuel: 1:36:50

I'm going to make a pun right now it's causing trouble a lot for you get it. It's causing trouble. Okay, I'm going to shut up now continue it's causing trouble.

Keno Manuel: 1:37:03

It's dropping the bass we're almost close to the end of this episode, guys, I'm sorry, but if you want to see more content like this, subscribe like this channel for more, and, you know, we'll have brooks on in a future episode. If you're learning a lot, let brooks know, because these are all valuable information that'll help you further your career as a musician and maybe, just maybe, you might be the next composer for Star Trek or Star Wars or the Jurassic Park. See, who knows? We'll leave it up to chance. Okay, now we're about to dive into the closing. Unfortunately, guys, brooks must depart real soon, and I have to too, but we'll see you in the next episode. So we're going to go into the closing.

Keno Manuel: 1:37:48

Brooks, we're going to have some remaining questions and we will never talk to each other ever, ever again. Does it sound like a great deal? Okay, great, great um one. The first question is like um, after everything you discussed, I really appreciate the fact that the challenges that you went through of you know getting take advantage of, and now you're have, you have this exposure to the dinosaurs and now you're going through this. Um, you went, you described to us about the orchestra how you're so in love with those big, like it's big grand music like dune. What is one, what is one uh project that you have that you haven't worked on, that you would like to try out?

Brooks Leibee: 1:38:34

I'm always I think we talked about this uh, but yeah, I'm not, like I'm not holding anything to it because I don't want to get myself too excited, but like I'm always bothering people about projects, yes, uh, that are like hey, I think I would be a great fit for this. Please, let me, please, let me, let me in. Uh, and I feel like I'm always like, like, like, uh, it's like the Eric Andre, let me uh, yeah, that's yeah. So like anything with anything dealing with like prehistory or anything that's with, uh, with dinosaurs, whether with anything dealing with like prehistory or anything that's with with dinosaurs, whether it's some kind of, you know, sci-fi movie or series or video game, I'm always trying to get in there, get my name put into the hat, you know, just so. Then there is discussion and there is some sort of points of me getting in the light, so to speak. So that's the dream thing I would love to.

Brooks Leibee: 1:39:38

The dream Brooks project is fantasy, because then the orchestra comes in, just has to I'm sorry I don't make the rules and then the close familial or anything emotional with the story, because then I don't know, I feel like the best music comes out of that stuff and and dinosaurs. It's that simple. It really is just that simple. If you're a dinosaur, brooks is happy and yeah, that's the, that's the goal. Just keep giving Brooks dinosaurs and he'll be set. Now I just like. I like projects that take really cool grand sci-fi but presents it in a really well put emotional or introspective story. Um, and there are plenty of plenty of projects out there right now that are, that are in development, that I'm I'm at the bars I'm shaking them.

Brooks Leibee: 1:40:46

Um, trying to trying to weasel my way in there, yeah, because I know it'll be so much fun and I think the products have so much potential. And yeah, let me write your music.

Keno Manuel: 1:41:02

Let me do it. Brooks, what's your socials for those people that are looking for someone like you?

Brooks Leibee: 1:41:10

What's your social Instagram is my name brookby, without a space. Twitter is brooks underscore libby, and I have an inquiry page on brooks libby dot com and there you can look at previous work and hire him some session stuff hire him.

Keno Manuel: 1:41:24

I recommend his services. Even though I'm a deaf person, that I can't hear him smooth like, I still recommend it. I still feel the passion that he has in producing stuff. So hire him, guys. Okay, um, now the other thing is um, what is out throughout your career and yes, you are still young and you are. You have yet to experience the greatest wins and the greatest thoughts. But where you are now, what is one lesson that you can give to people that want to follow your footsteps?

Brooks Leibee: 1:41:51

It's not so cheesy.

Keno Manuel: 1:41:53

Oh gosh.

Brooks Leibee: 1:41:53

Look in the past, what you never know, what will revisit. You Look in the past Really, because that's kind of what I did. You know things like going into cinematography and editing and all these other like like production things yeah um, that's, that's what I was like.

Brooks Leibee: 1:42:16

Yeah, I was in love with it and I learned so much with it and I think that really helped. Uh, that really helped with baking myself into this post-production side of music and, um, any editorial stuff, because then you have the knowledge of these other roles and things like that. That's good. I think that's a good tip too. Actually Branch out. Try other roles, like direct short film, okay, act in something. Find other things to really feel out these other lanes of the road. So then you know, once you find the lane that you fit in best, you can stick to it. Or, like what I said look in the past, because I had to.

Brooks Leibee: 1:42:59

I had the realization with with short films in college when there was no one around to do the, the, the soundtracks, and we had people that had scheduling issues and things. And, um, if there, and we had people that had scheduling issues and things, if there's something you can do where you're like, yeah, I'll do it myself. Sometimes that becomes what you really like, and that's kind of what happened with me. It's like we did short films in college. No one could do the music and then I was like, oh, I played viola for 10 years in an orchestra, so I know something about music, so why don't I give it a shot? And then, yeah, here we are, all those years later. So look in the past and see what you did previously, because maybe that'll help you in the long run, because it helped me.

Keno Manuel: 1:43:50

So it sounds like there's a lot of value in uh taking a reflection in your journey, and I um dude, this goes back to what you just said earlier. You said, um how you found it interesting where people you know, the past historical pieces um have always been somewhat sample or the inspiration that can always still be found in the modern history, like at the times we're now. So that's why when you said, okay, that makes sense, that's actually a congratulations. You're the first person who actually has that advice, because most people would say be strong, be passionate, uh, don't take shit from everyone else. That's the first unique advice that I've heard from that, too, which one don't take shit from everyone else.

Brooks Leibee: 1:44:30

That's the first unique advice that I've heard from that too which one don't take shit from everybody else, I know I agree. I agree with them too. Yeah, you have to also stand up for yourself, because it's easy to let people walk all over you and they're not wrong.

Keno Manuel: 1:44:44

They're not wrong all right, look into the past to see those who have shit on you. I mean, um, um, step over you. Tell them that you're gonna prove them wrong, but anyways, um, do you have any last words for um, the things that we never got around to, that you would have loved to talk about? Were there any last words that you have in mind?

Brooks Leibee: 1:45:11

Not really. We covered a lot. Okay, I mean, if anyone has any questions or anything with this, you can comment. Right, this will go on YouTube.

Keno Manuel: 1:45:26

What this will go on YouTube.

Brooks Leibee: 1:45:29

Yes, it's going on YouTube Comment questions and I'll stalk, yes'll stalk and I can, I can answer. Or if you can find me on on socials, um twitter, instagram or or my website, and, yeah, happy, happy to chit chat. I'm always it's always fun talking about, um music and other things like that music is the sound, it's a, it's a beautiful language.

Keno Manuel: 1:45:49

So, all right, guys, play the music, play the violin. This is the closing. If you like this channel and this video, don't forget to like and subscribe. We will always be here to provide quality content to help you throughout your journey, and you will be able to get connected and feel related to people like brooks. There are a lot of creatives out there that will help you inspire, and that is the mission of this channel to get you guys inspired. This video will be up on the youtube, as well as spotify and um. I can't wait for you guys to listen to this conversation and please, please, please reach out to brooks to let him know how much you appreciate his insights. So, with that being said, I think that's everything we have for you guys today, and cut and cut, but they're always working on music.

Brooks Leibee: 1:47:00

One of my friends actually just went to Salt Lake City, I think, and that's what they do at a video game studio. Crazy, that's what that is. If I did have to compromise, that would be the compromise just to work on more music.

Keno Manuel: 1:47:16

Yeah, I'm going to have to ask you to just repeat one of those. I just realized that's such a great piece of content. Guys, I know we just said goodbye a second ago, but brooks just dropped up great, uh wisdom. Um, I'm gonna recreate that intro. Oh my gosh, uh, you know, freelancing is such a difficult job. It's not like we totally had this conversation a while ago. Um, it's so hard. Blah, blah, blah. I don't know, brooks, how do you feel about that?

Brooks Leibee: 1:47:53

Yeah, man, yeah, no, for real. We were just talking about how nice it is to get to freelance and things, but it's also very hard because it's inconsistent. So finding an in-house composer job would be pretty cool, because then it's like you have the 9-5 stability but you're always working on music and you're always. I mean it's a safety net and it's a creative job. So I mean, on paper, you shouldn't get tired of it, because I have a friend who just moved to Salt Lake City and they're an in-house composer at a video game studio and they voiced this they're saying it's so nice just to have that security of the 9 to 5, you're always on the clock but you're always working on music.

Brooks Leibee: 1:48:48

It may not be on your, your projects, but then it's also you have more time to do it because it's all these departments working together and, um, they all have deadlines and they all have, they have a boss, but it's it's a creative job and you have that creative liberty to it, um, as any creative job has. But yeah, just all about that security. And then you have the flexibility on the side to to do what you want with your freelance um, which I think varies per job. I think it all just depends on what's under the contract, but yeah, so, oh yeah, contracts and in-house composer jobs, that's that. That's a good compromise to have if you need to get that 9-5 to make it work.

Keno Manuel: 1:49:36

I agree, because when you have that with your career, it's like you have to fund, to keep funding your creative projects, because if it's just constantly freelancing and then you run out of money, how are you going to fund your creative passions? Because if it's just um, constantly and freelancing and then you run out of money, how are you going to fund your creative passions? That'll help you get there. So yeah, it's just the moral of the story, guys, is I think it's. You know, it's weird like everyone has this stigma about no, quit your day job, go hard on your passion.

Keno Manuel: 1:50:08

Now, I'll admit I used to have that mindset and work, but it wasn't until the reality hit me. It's like, well, where's your money you got to pay your bills? I'm like shit. So I it's so nice to just relax it, just have something to keep you going without just going crazy about your income. So, anyways, sorry guys, I know this is the longest outro ever after we just added this onto the end of the video, but it's really helpful. Okay, that's it. I'll see you all in the next episode, I promise. Okay, goodbye.