Hit-N-Record
Welcome to Hit-N-Record!
I'm Keno Manuel, a filmmaker passionate about exploring the stories of creative minds and sharing their journeys with you. On this channel, you'll find authentic, inspiring conversations with innovative creators from filmmaking, photography, and beyond.
Every episode, I sit down with local creatives to dig into their successes, challenges, and the lessons that shaped their paths. Whether you're an aspiring filmmaker, an entrepreneur, or someone who loves personal growth, Hit-N-Record is here to spark your creativity and motivate you to achieve your goals.
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Hit-N-Record
"Creating A Space For Difficult Conversations Leads To The Most Impactful Art." | Lessons from "Smoke Breaks" Filmmaker William Mettlach
How can therapy transform the way we write stories? In this episode, we explore the profound impact of emotional intelligence and therapeutic insights on the art of screenwriting. Our special guest, William Metlock, takes us on his unique journey from an aspiring marine biologist to a mental health clinician who finds balance between his professional and creative lives. William shares the meticulous two-and-a-half-year process of bringing his short film "Smoke Breaks" to life, a testament to dedication and passion in creative expression.
Join us as we navigate the fascinating intersection of mental health and storytelling, uncovering the layers that therapy adds to character development. From exploring William's personal life, including his experiences with Hurricane Katrina and his shift in career aspirations, to his heartfelt reflections on family dynamics and self-acceptance, this episode offers a rich tapestry of themes. We delve into the authenticity of queer representation in film, the importance of community support in creative projects, and the emotional rollercoaster of casting and directing a debut film.
Lastly, we celebrate the triumphs and challenges of filmmaking, emphasizing the importance of collaboration, perseverance, and staying true to one’s artistic vision. Listen to William’s heartfelt anecdotes about finding father figures through martial arts and the powerful, everyday inspirations behind his storytelling. As we wrap up, we tease upcoming projects and underscore the joy of local filmmaking, leaving you inspired by the transformative power of blending mental health insights with creative pursuits.
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As a person that's been in that place. How has that been like for you when it comes to now expressing your thoughts into something that's creative?
Speaker 2:I've always, naturally, been a creative. It's definitely influenced me because I think that it helped me build a stronger emotional intelligence when it came to the characters that I would write. All of these micro emotions that a person expresses on camera, there is an entire life story behind those that are creating those interactions. When it comes to a person that acts a little bit more reserved, there is an entire lifetime of lore that a person has that has created that external expression. And that's really what therapy has taught me is that everybody has a story, including your characters. You can have all of these different archetypes to the characters that you have. That's really how I think that therapy influenced my character writing and my screenwriting as a whole is that it's taught me that even a one-line character that you have, or just a blip of a scene, there's an entire story that is untold of a scene.
Speaker 1:There's an entire story that is untold. All right guys, welcome back to another hidden record episode. Today we do have another special guest, as always, every other guest that comes on very special in their own way, but this one in particular.
Speaker 2:This is hi, my name is will metlock. Do I look at the camera when I'm introducing myself?
Speaker 1:whichever you want to stare at your beautiful face, whichever you want.
Speaker 2:Okay, I really like this one because it's giving me the most attention. This one is kind of a little far back.
Speaker 1:It's a little hey, now I will give that big of attention you give that one. Come on, friend, I don't know yes, we're gonna talk to our cameras like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, high camera, number one scene, I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's my favorite.
Speaker 2:It's like picking a kid, you know? Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:And you know, Summer hey, Summer, if you're watching this, we love you, Summer says. She said, if you want to look really good in front of the camera, you want to make eye contact to the camera and make love to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do I really? She said that I don't know if this camera could take me. Oh, yes, okay all right.
Speaker 1:So, uh, in this podcast episode, guys, we're going to be diving into a lot of things. The first one there's a lot. The first thing that I want you to stay in tune for is the fact that william is having a movie coming out really soon. Seriously, that takes a lot of hard work to get a movie started from the beginning all the way to the end, and that title of the movie is what is it?
Speaker 2:it's called smoke breaks. Um, it's not like a full feature film per se in in the traditional sense, but, um, it's an 11 minute 24 second little short film that, um, I kind of created about. The whole process has probably taken about two and a half years or so, and we just yeah, we just got our first rough cut, like maybe about a week ago or so oh well, there you go, you guys.
Speaker 1:That's where, that's what you're gonna be, uh, that's what you're gonna be. Listening out for the process of making your short film, because that is a, seriously, that is a, that's a huge endeavor to take on. So congratulations to you for making that. Uh, from beginning to the end, through how he started and then got all the way to the. To this point in the year 2024 of july 8th. We're not reaching sky net yet because the ai is still not that smart. Anyways, stay tuned for that. If you like this content of that I've been putting out, don't forget to hit and like and subscribe on this youtube channel. And also, where can people find you?
Speaker 2:okay. So I've got two instagrams, okay. One is, uh, at swag master box hot 5000. I know that is a mouthful if you have like a visual, like if you put, like you can physically put it in, I'll just like send you what it looks like. Yeah, um, that's like the one that you and I have been dming off of really, and then um for our film instagram for smoke breaks. It's just smoke breaks film on instagram where you'll be receiving like all kinds of bts.
Speaker 2:Uh, we had a really fantastic photographer named hannah dade gregory. She's a local photographer here take you did great, like over seven. Like she shot and edited like 700 photos and it's like literally just everything that has been taking place over the filming process to the BTS. I mean to literally just the physical film shoot itself. Like she's really done it all. I think she took over 3,000 photos and edited 3,000 photos and cut it down to 700. Shout out to you, hannah. Hannah, hannah, shout out to you Hannah, degre.
Speaker 1:Come on?
Speaker 2:dude, I didn't know it was my piece of clap. I'm sorry that would have been weird.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for editing a lot of the content for his short film.
Speaker 2:We love you. No, she's absolutely incredible, really.
Speaker 1:Okay. With that being said, let the thunder roll. It's a rainy night. Once upon a time, it was a stormy night. Even boom, it's a rainy night, you know. Once upon a time it was a stormy night even though it's like bright and sunny out don't write the picture. It was a fine. You know what fine it was a sunny day with a temperature that's over 100 degrees.
Speaker 2:It's so hot that you can cook a lot on on the road you could like steam a big, big old bag of broccoli, just by standing outside, I know.
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm being cooked too like a dumpling or a tofu outside. Yeah, it's that hot, but anyways.
Speaker 2:That just shows that I'm white and you're Asian. Because I was like, oh my god, it's like steaming broccoli, and you're like, yeah, I feel like a dumpling. Or I feel like, oh my God, it's like steaming broccoli and you're like, yeah, I feel like a dumpling, like I feel like a thing of tofu and. I'm like okay. Like I'm good I know, I'm Casey.
Speaker 1:It's very hard to breathe in that environment. But anyways, shh, shh, shh, we're trying to paint a picture here Sunny day, 105 degrees, whatever, in this Big rock that we call Earth. If we zoom in just a little bit In the United States, but if you just zoom in a little bit more In that tiny handle right there, florida, and if you zoom in a little bit more, if you go across the coast of Destin, actually we're in Fort One. There is a person named William and we're now about to dive into the beginnings of William Medlock. Tell us your origin story.
Speaker 2:Go for it. So what is my origin story? Okay, so, I was born in a small town called Sleida, louisiana. That was where the hospital was, but then my mom was like okay, we're going to carry you over to this small town called Career, Mississippi. Oh wow, yeah, it's like really teeny tiny, like I know mississippians that don't even know what career is, like it was crazy and, um, I lived there until I was about six years old hurricane katrina hint and oh, wow yeah so, and then my mom had family out there so, and my dad still kept his job okay in louisiana.
Speaker 2:So they were like you know what we're gonna do, like a long distance marriage kind of thing okay, you have six, like my dad was. Like you have sick parents we'll just I'll make it out like once a month and everything okay, and so I lived in um south florida, specifically the boca raton area, for about 12 years oh wow, yeah from like ages 6 to 18.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. And then I came out here when I just graduated high school, just because I kind of felt this like really weird energy with. Pensacola that I just kind of wanted to explore a little bit more, and I got accepted into UWF. Oh, wow, okay. And I've been here for the past like seven years or so. I got my undergrad in psychology here and then I eventually got my master's yeah in social work where I'm now sort of like an unlicensed um, I'm a therapist kind of actively working towards what?
Speaker 1:what drove you to? Uh? Okay, first of all, I love psychology. I actually have books on it. The thing that I love about what I love about psychology is finding out or understanding more about the interpersonal relationship between multiple people and understanding how one responds to another's based on the behavior and how they talk. All of that is just so interesting. So why, what drew you to that?
Speaker 2:so it was like really interesting because um I first initially went to school for marine biology because I was like, oh, I watched finding nemo as a child.
Speaker 1:I want to save the fish please tell me you've seen um free willie I have, is that? Oh, I mean, it's not like my favorite movie, it was Nemo.
Speaker 2:That really was like oh my god, this is my shit. Yeah, it was Nemo and I was like oh my god, and there was this like one specific, like I was looking through like all the different career fields that you could go into and there was this like job called an aquarist where you could basically go in and like take care of fish tanks and everything turns out that's like 1% of all marine biology majors and the rest either go into the navy or do research and I was like ew.
Speaker 2:So I then was like, oh my god, what do I want to do? I want to do makeup and costuming. Why? Because, like james charles before he was canceled was like the only thing that I would watch and I was like I want to be like a beauty boy, okay, and my mom was like you still have to go to school, so I got my, I went.
Speaker 2:I then switched my degree to technical theater and I broke up. I went through literally a Britney in 2007 moment and I shaved off my head, broke up with a long distance boyfriend and literally became an entirely different person and then was like I need therapy Because, oh my god, I'm not good. The thing is is I can't afford therapy Because I am a broke college student. So then I was like well, what can I do? Oh, I can fix myself. And.
Speaker 2:I went into psychology and, um, because the other thing was is I was like, okay, I'm really good at being a creative, but I'm also really good at talking to people. What is something that I can do where I talk to people that doesn't involve me selling cars or other things like without going into sales? And I was like, okay, I really like the medical field, but I hate blood and guts and but I, yeah, and again, I really love talking with people and, you know, being just a person that people can lean on and everything.
Speaker 2:So then I was like okay, this is something that I can do that could also give me health insurance. And so, um, cause that was like a big thing was, my mom was like you can go to school for anything, but you just have to be able to pay your bills at the end of the day. And I was like, all right, cool.
Speaker 2:So that was kind of what drew me towards therapy and I was kind of like, all right, my bread and butter to a degree, and then, you know, I can really try and figure out this creative thing as I kind of go along. And that was really sort of the thing was I was like I need something that I kind of like, you know, that I like and that won't, you know, make me question all of my life's decisions, while also being sort of able to put you know, while also being able to pay my rent and it just kind of felt like a natural fit because I just really naturally loved learning about people.
Speaker 2:I loved learning about all of the things in the DSM five and um, I read, like all of the big psychologists, like Milgram Pili Oven, like you know, all the Stanford prison experiment, like all of those different things. I became just so infatuated with it and, um, that's really where I kind of came to be where I am today, and now I'm like an active, working, uh, mental health clinician.
Speaker 1:And we end credits there. Thank you so much for watching this episode. Uh, actually, what therapy um, I know you said that you, you, you, you. What therapy? It provides you a platform to understand other people. What has the but? What has therapy taught you about yourself? When it comes to, uh, learning how to navigate through your emotions and your thoughts, especially especially when it comes to being open about who you really are and accepting who you are, is perfectly the best version of yourself, because not everyone is always going to see that way.
Speaker 2:So, like the biggest thing that therapy really taught me about myself and not just like in regards to other people and everything was it really taught me the power of having an open ear? I mean, honestly, like everybody says, oh my God, everybody needs a therapist and everything, and I do believe that to a certain extent. What I do believe is that everybody needs a person that they can feel listened to, including myself, you know, and that was really the thing. I also think that it really taught that therapy isn't necessarily the only coping mechanism that one could probably isn't necessarily the only coping mechanism an individual can have in their tool belt, but it's also sometimes not even the best one.
Speaker 2:There is such thing as therapy fatigue and when I because part of the recommended thing that people do when you are going through therapy school is that you have your own therapist and there is such thing as therapy fatigue where you legitimately have talked through all of your baggage and there comes a point where you start to kind of go through cycles. You know of your own emotional processing and it kind of taught me that, and so then that sort of lended itself processing and it kind of taught me that, and so then that sort of lended itself. I was like, okay, well, like therapy, just naturally isn't benefiting me anymore, in this point in my life.
Speaker 2:It really helped me discover some other avenues in which I can kind of express myself, and that was where I started finding really like you know, my love for writing um you know, as we're probably going to discuss later, you know, my joy for MMA and you know, UFC fighting and everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a whole thing, and that's what it really taught me was that, like, therapy isn't necessarily the only coping skill that another individual has, but it's also not the best one for every given circumstance. I think everybody, whenever you're going through any kind of mental health struggle, they say, oh my God, go to therapy.
Speaker 1:That's not necessarily the best answer for their situation. It might not be the band-aid that would immediately solve what they're going through.
Speaker 2:I mean sometimes and this sounds a little controversial and everything but sometimes you just need to literally cry it out with a friend until like three in the morning and then you're good. You know, and I obviously recommend like therapy to a bunch of different people, but like it is one of those things where I'm like it is such a great resource, but it's not the only one. And that was the thing that taught about me, because that was the original thought that I had in my head was like I need to go therapy when in reality and I did to an extent, but then it came to- a point where I was like okay, I don't need therapy.
Speaker 2:I need a hobby. I need to have friends, I need to you know and have these different things in my life.
Speaker 1:I can't just be slowly relying on my therapist yeah, just one person is not enough to make your whole life whole. Yeah, I mean, I think I still think that served a value, because if that didn't happen, you would not have gone to that place where you actually realized that those were just as important as having someone to talk to absolutely yeah, as a person that's been in that place, how has that been like for you when it comes to now expressing your thoughts into something that's creative?
Speaker 2:so um. I've always naturally been a creative you know I wouldn't necessarily like.
Speaker 2:It's definitely influenced me because I think that it helped me build a stronger emotional intelligence when it came to the, the characters that I would write.
Speaker 2:And, um, because when it comes to writing characters for things like on, you know, for something that is to appear on a screen, all of these micro emotions that a person expresses on camera, there is an entire life story behind those that are creating those interactions.
Speaker 2:When it comes to a person that acts a little bit more reserved, there is an entire lifetime of lore that a person has that has kind of created that external expression. Yeah, and um, that's really what therapy has taught me is that everybody has a story, including your characters. It's like you can have all of these different archetypes to the characters that you have, but what's the story behind that? Even for, like, I mean, I've seen like little three minute short films and everything. What is the true like novel length life story that this character has for this three minute clip, and that is the thing that I think that that's really how I think that therapy influenced um, my character writing and my, my screenwriting as a whole is that it's taught me that, even like a one line character that you have for just a blip of a scene. There's an entire story that is untold.
Speaker 1:I'll do you one better. You know um the movie well, even without dialogue, if you just understand how they uh create a story with just what's unfolding in front of you, that's a story enough of of its own I mean absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean you're given such a context with everything that, uh, you know, wally as a character has.
Speaker 2:I mean I, it was really funny because I was talking with a friend like this is so weird because a week ago, I was straight up talking to a friend and he was like saying that his favorite movie of all time was WALL-E because it was just like this beautiful grand love story in this dystopian world, and he just loved the kind of dichotomy of it and it was like really interesting how this, like teeny, like how this like ultimately like a garbage can of a like a recycling bin, of this little robot guy, I mean, was able to portray such emotion.
Speaker 1:But it's like you could just tell that there is so much experience that this teeny, tiny little robot has you know, and it's through these like brief, little micro expressions even even even when he moved eyes, even if he, when he just like um, changed to a tiny box, there's. It's like, exactly like what you said. It's not only just through words, but through the body language of every character and the micro expressions that they portray on screen. It's yeah, guys, we could just talk about this but I have a question.
Speaker 1:In therapy, though, I know, there are some people where they have to go through this certain phase, where they have to regulate certain things in terms of what, what is being said and what's not being said with therapy. Well, in some variation of therapy, some will allow you to just forget about um, filtering the specific thoughts that you want to express. So what? What? The creative um opportunities that you've been given? How has it been like for you personally, as a person? How has it been like for you to finally just express everything without some sense of judgment from other people, and including yourself? You know like it takes a while to accept that what you're thinking to yourself it's also just as important yeah, I.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think, ultimately, when it comes to all of that, it's it's just been completely life-changing, because I think that for, like, it's been an incredibly therapeutic process this filmmaking process in and of itself, Like I didn't realize how much it would be. I've found myself in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2:I didn't even think that I would when I was first kind of creating you know, even as a kid, I was almost embarrassed with the art that I would create and he was like, I mean, my parents were proud of me to an extent, but it felt very personal, you know, and I was like this is just my thing, and I felt very secretive about the uh writing that I would do growing up and everything.
Speaker 2:and this is sort of the first time that I'm actually kind of showcasing my artwork you know, in a sense, I think the only other time was really the last time that we, you and I, communicated, which was at CCT, when I had like sort of that little art exhibit where I was selling my artwork.
Speaker 2:But other than that and I think there was like one other like competition I had won in like sixth grade or something, but between all of that this has really been the most vulnerable like creative process that I've ever been through, because I'm not only showcasing people, all of these things, but it's through the creative meetings I would have with the creative team over at Calliope Films in understanding all of these little things that have kind of influenced this film and this filmmaking process. Right.
Speaker 2:A big thing that I had kind of had to deal with was like just the imposter syndrome of it all which was like such an interesting thing. It's so real Well, everybody talks about it but it's like nobody talks like everybody talks about it but they don't understand fully what it feels like it's like a point where it's like you genuinely just, I mean, it really took me having to accept the things that were kind of being given to me in a lot of ways, because a lot of this happened just by complete accident.
Speaker 2:And I'm just incredibly lucky at the fact that people have been responding to this creative project for so long, because it takes a lot of working gears and it takes a lot of these different things and it can. Having topics like this, you know, that are kind of discussed in the film it, for some people it's not super digestible in an understandable way because it's a very niche topic, and so that process in of itself of explaining them I've had to not only dig deep for these other people to kind of help them understand the message I'm trying to portray, but it's also helped me dig deeper into myself as to really understand why am I telling this story in the first place.
Speaker 1:well, that's a beautiful answer. Seriously, seriously, there's actually. We are about to unpack. Are you guys ready? Put on your seatbelt. Put on your seatbelt. This is about to be a rollercoaster. Now be prepared, because I'm about to hit you with hard-hitting questions, like the way to do with the moderators.
Speaker 3:All right, Now I want you to channel the presidential candidate energy.
Speaker 1:All right, okay. Mr President. All energy, all right. Okay, mr president, all right. No, no, you're not president. You have to be nominated for whatever that process is. What was the hardest part that you had to learn how to accept about yourself throughout that process?
Speaker 2:oh my god, um, the hardest thing I had to accept about myself. I had to accept that I was a good writer, like that was the hardest thing. What? Yeah that was the hardest thing because, again, going back to it previously, before all of this, okay, I was again very secretive the only other person that I really shared any kind of art with.
Speaker 2:I had like three people, and it was like my oldest sister, courtney, my niece marilee, and then my best friend, olivia okay, those were like the three people and that was it you know, I didn't showcase any other creative stuff to really anybody, except for a first date that I was trying to impress and I was like here's a poem that I wrote in 20 seconds you know, but that was it. Even then I was kind of like, oh, this is like another thing.
Speaker 2:I didn't see myself as like this great, impactful writer. I still don't necessarily think that to an extent, but I, you know I am a good writer. I won a contest. I, you know I made like it. It got picked up by a production company to be made and that in of itself was the hardest thing for me to accept was that I was just simply a good writer. I think that writers and just creatives in general, we are our worst self-critics. We are the worst critic.
Speaker 1:Of course, just creatives. In general, we are our worst soft critics. We are our worst critic, of course.
Speaker 2:You know, and just getting to that place where I was like, oh, this is good enough to be made. I was like, okay, you know that was just an incredibly difficult obstacle to tackle, but I do think that I've reached. You know, I've definitely gotten over that hump just because I was like, well, I didn't put all this work into nothing, and I think seeing the rough cut really helped solidify.
Speaker 3:Like oh this is something good. Okay, oh, this is something good.
Speaker 2:I don't want to get like way too excited. My biggest thing is I was like I don't want to get way too excited, but because I also don't want to create false expectations, Okay.
Speaker 2:And that was probably the difficult thing was like understanding that something is good while also creating reasonable expectations for myself, because sometimes, whenever you think I'm a good writer, I'm a good creative, you get a little way too in your head and you're like I'm God, I am the best writer in the world. Yeah, edgar Allen Poe. Who is she? I don't know. And there would be some times where I would have little fits of that, where I was like, oh my God.
Speaker 1:The ego check. You got to keep the ego in check, especially when you feel like when all the things are happening, you just have to learn how, to you know, temper your expectations and your ego, because sometimes it's really easy to get carried away.
Speaker 2:Right, it's finding that balance, and that was really really difficult, because there would just be some times where I was at like really really difficult lows where I'm like, oh my God, I'm the worst writer in the world, oh my God this isn't going to be made into anything or whatever. And then there would be some times where I'm like hi, I'm the coming of Christ, you're the new 12th commandment. No, and yeah, it was like, but it came down to having like a really strong creative support system that really kind of keeps you grounded while also motivated.
Speaker 1:Well, let me ask you this Are you familiar with the Try Guys? Yes, there's one cast, I believe Eric, or it's the Asian dude, eugene Eugene. I've seen the transfer. It's the Asian dude, eugene Eugene. I've seen the Amanda, my girlfriend. She was the one who introduced me to Try Guys. I would not have known about them if it wasn't for her. Amanda, if you're watching this, thank you so much God. I love Amanda.
Speaker 1:This is now helpful for this podcast. I've seen his transformation from you know, when he first got out of Busby and when they all started getting together. Yeah, you could tell that the first transformation that he had, at the beginning, all the way to the end, where he it's like a slow embrace of accepting every part of himself. And I think that's what's happening to you too, because since you started writing and you kept all this to yourself, I think you're reaching the.
Speaker 1:You're going on the same path that he isn't doing, and I think that's something to be proud of and the other thing I have to say is that it's really interesting that you had this um internal dynamic of wondering, or, yeah, you have this internal dynamic of not knowing why you're, you think you're not a great writer, when there's literally other people who are going through the exact same thing, with the same issues that they're facing internally and externally. That could be just inspired by your story right it's just really interesting that we feel that way inside and it shows um or, from your perspective, just bleeds into your work even it's so and it's so hard to see.
Speaker 1:So how is it? How do you, how do you keep yourself reminded that there are other people that are going through the exact same thing that you are going through?
Speaker 2:Well, sort of similar to how I mentioned earlier. Um, it comes down to really having that creative support system, you know, and um, having those people that are going through the same through the same things and being a part of like sort of a creative community. The same things. And being a part of like sort of a creative community um you have just like those friends.
Speaker 2:I mean, you've interviewed danny before, like danny yeah, danny joseph is like literally my best friend and he is straight up like my creative therapist. When it comes to any sort of creative rut or anything like that, I just literally will call him up and I'm like hey, baby, this is what I'm going through and everything and. But it's also like other people you know who have gone through very similar things. Like there is a really incredible producer named Erica Dukes who worked for.
Speaker 1:Vivid.
Speaker 2:Bridge for a minute. Oh really, yeah, she worked for Vivid Bridge for a minute and then also again, like there's just such a beautiful community in the Emerald. Coast where we're all trying to make something and I guess it just comes down to whenever I need it the most.
Speaker 2:I will just reach out to those people in my creative support system of just being like hey, I'm going through X, y and Z, whether it's like a production issue whether it's a creative issue in regards to the actual writing process, if I'm stuck in writer's block or anything like that and I just will like, and I always ask for sort of like emotional consent first of like. Hey, can I just like word vomit all over you.
Speaker 2:And or hey, can you give me some feedback or anything like that. Um, and then I just kind of go from there and then typically it's after like one conversation with danny, I'm like okay, I'm good usually it's, I feel like, uh, in therapy, usually when you let people talk, they actually are the one that solves the problem you know when you just let them vent everything yeah oh wait, you know what you're right.
Speaker 1:I think I should do that. What they haven't even said anything, it's. It just takes that one right person to let you vent everything in a safe space.
Speaker 2:That's the most important thing well, and then also like really creating that space of okay, this is a space for me where I could just completely vent to you and I get no feedback or I need a different opinion.
Speaker 2:I need you to call me out on something that's missing here and just creating that kind of space before the conversation even happens, to allow those positive, creative conversations to flow, because there are also some times where I'll call up a friend and this isn't like Danny, this will be like other people, right and they sit there and they give me the most unwarranted feedback ever.
Speaker 2:And I'm like no, I just needed to vomit you know, but it's like creating that space beforehand where you can kind of have that grounding or you can have that raising up.
Speaker 1:Well, let me, let's take a step back here. Not just friends, but your family. How did they respond to you now that they've seen you working on stuff like this? Because let me tell you, ma'am, parents, we love you, we know that you're trying to do what's best for us, but there are some times where they might not understand completely why we're doing things in a certain way. Yeah, and especially in the creative field. Okay, they will never understand, because they come from a background that's completely and vastly different. Yeah, and how we, how they live, versus how we live now. Yeah, how have they responded to you with this creative project that you've been working so tirelessly on?
Speaker 2:it's really interesting because my family. It's like two opposite sides of the same coin, right so I have um three older siblings, all of which are 10 plus years older than me, right? All of which have all completely different personalities, like no seriously. And then I also have my mother, who she comes from a more conservative background.
Speaker 2:She has a more conservative frame of mind and whenever she heard about the subject matter, she I mean, you know, it was one of those things where there is like sort of she's like this is really cool, but also like I don't want you to go down the wrong path, because she hears the stories of like lindsey lohan's, she hears about the event, you know who like get so, and she it was mainly it came from a place of caution, of like I want you to be safe and I want you to be okay, because you know I've heard of these stories and everything like that and the stories don't always reflect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've said like film doesn't equal hollywood you know, but even then, like there are people that have extremely positive experiences in hollywood and everything like that, and I've said, and I've straight up had to kind of tell her sort of my intentions with this film, of really the story that I'm trying to tell, and it's taken a lot of conversation and I think it not only comes from allowing the space for them to have an open ear of what you're trying to do, but also you yourself of allowing yourself to hear their hesitancies and hearing where maybe they are concerned in regards to certain things and really trying to figure out that gap, you know, or trying to trying to bridge that gap of those differing opinions, because there were some things that she kind of mentioned where I did understand where she was coming from.
Speaker 2:I like she ultimately comes from a place of like I want you to be safe. And I kind of shifted the conversation of okay, well, this is what I'm doing in order to make sure that I am safe and, you know, to kind of create that feeling of safety that she has. And I mean I have another like my, my oldest sister, courtney. She's like literally she's been like my biggest creative cheerleader, like since. Thank you, courtney, thank you, courtney, I love you girl. I mean, she's been like really a huge driving force in my creativity since I was a child. I mean I was like literally 11 and she showed me the musical of Rent. Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:And she was the like. She's the reason why I saw a gay person on my TV screens for the first time Because it was like, and it was just simply because she, this was a group of people that she associated herself with. She didn't see anything wrong with these things. So it's like she and I have a very, very similar point of view when it comes to a lot of things.
Speaker 2:So that kind of conversation there didn't need to be, because those conversations already had been had and because that's just kind of how our relationship always was my, I have another sister who lives in mississippi and everything, and things are like a little bit more distant.
Speaker 2:You know, between all this there's love, but it's very much like a k love yeah it's like you know from this my knee, and like my nieces and nephews, they know that I'm a filmmaker and everything. They don't know the the subject matter, but they know that I make movies and there is sort of like a like a level of intrigue there. But they're also at an age where I can't necessarily sit there and go through the intricacies of like storytelling and directing and all of that stuff. They just know, oh, I'm making a movie.
Speaker 2:And then there's my brother who is like I love him to absolute death and he is just kind of like I mean, he literally bragged, like he we don't sit and talk about the intricacies of the film but he is like generally very supportive. I mean, he was like literally at um, like a like a birthday party with like this, uh, with the mother of like one of his best friends and everything, and it was one of those things where like conversations started to get a little bit awkward. But he started talking about how, the fact that I'm a filmmaker, and he was like general and he expressed to me that he's generally very proud of me.
Speaker 2:And and he expressed to me that he's generally very proud of me and even though, like the subject, like this guy is like total dude bro, like straight guy, it's really funny because we look very similar visually but like it's like too, like he is like I'm going to sit and, you know, drink my beer while watching like football and like go sports, like hoor, like who, like all of those different things, and I'm like loves it, you know. Uh, it's really funny Cause, like the UFC and like MMA has become kind of like a bridge with those conversations.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But yeah, he's like it's really weird because all four of these people in my life it's all so different uh with their points of view, because my sister, she will literally like my oldest sister, courtney, she'll sit there and she'll spit fire different ideas. In fact, a lot of the scenes that are in Smoke Breaks she's literally come up with while I was in a creative rut. And you'll see, and when you actually see, I'll kind of tell you what scenes there are.
Speaker 2:That she's helped, right yeah but it's like you know, and then again it's like the perspectives of each of my family members are also different, because I have a sister that literally has like really no idea, because she just lives in a completely different like, even though she lives in the south it's like I mean she just bought like 120 acres in the middle of nowhere, mississippi you know.
Speaker 4:And then there's my brother who is like whoa cool, the truic movie awesome yeah great.
Speaker 2:And then there's my mother being like I just want you to be safe oh my gosh, that's a lot of that's completely like inside out, you have multiple characters yeah I mean it's like I very much describe my family as like we are just kind of like it's like a happy bunch of family, like we're just a bunch of loudmouth italians.
Speaker 1:Oh, like the sopranos yeah, we're just a bunch of loudmouth italians. No mob ties, right? Okay, you're not gonna. I'm not gonna get mobbed after this, as difficult as it may be. Now that you're at a place where you have the ability to showcase your story, what is one thing that you could say to people that are going through that at a young age with their parents, when they're trying to figure out who they really are?
Speaker 2:So really, I mean, I just think it comes down to go with things at your own pace. When it comes to like young, like I'm assuming that it's like gearing towards like queer youth and everything, because that's like really a huge part of my story is.
Speaker 2:it really comes down to go with things at your own pace and, for one, make sure that your physical safety is at your utmost priority and if you're in a place where you aren't physically safe to kind of express your own queerness and everything really, I mean, as difficult as it is, really try your best to kind of keep it to yourself and really allow yourself to have those internal conversations first, until you are able to get into a physical physically safe space and then, once you are, or if you are, go at it at your own pace.
Speaker 2:The minute that you start having a crush on a boy, you don't have to scream hey mom, I love dudes. You don't. That's not necessarily the thing you know. Make sure that you're at a place in yourself where you are comfortable and you've had that sense of internal dialogue. Have those conversations with, say, friends. Yes.
Speaker 2:Or you know, before you maybe go up to a family member that maybe has a differing opinion and also come at it from an open mind, because that was like a huge thing of my journey is again the natural hesitancies that I was met with my mother, cause again she comes from a more conservative point of view.
Speaker 2:Um, not only did I wish for her to listen, I also had to listen for her as well, and it came from just having open ears on both sides and also, again, like when you have those conversations, um come at it from a place of just sort of emotional exploration between the two of you.
Speaker 1:My brother. Well, I've watched him go through that same exact thing and I, you know, when he I was, I was at a it was at that whole house and the one I just recently moved out of. We were just, you know, I was doing my thing and he was, and then he came out and I was like that didn't really change how I saw him, the only thing I just doped when he was like oh, so that's why you've been calling me gay all these years, bro, you're just projecting onto me.
Speaker 1:I have a very similar story to that, like but it didn't really change who he was to me. No, it shouldn't, it really shouldn't. But I just saw the struggle, though, in my parents when my brother I'm like one, like your mom. They were coming from a conservative standpoint, but the one thing I'm really proud of seeing what they've done with my brother is that they've grown. Seeing what they've done with my brother is that they've grown not they're still having difficulty of accepting, but the fact that they're taking efforts and making sure that the space that he's in he's emotionally and physically and psychologically safe with them, even though my mom and dad have such a hard time still do to this day to um really comprehend it, but they do it so with love knowing that just because, um, just because he, he just doesn't follow the norm, doesn't mean he's any different.
Speaker 1:He's the same brother that I is. He's the same brother that I talk shit at and still love him the same no, yeah, I mean, and that's like exactly how it is.
Speaker 2:I remember when I first like came, like came out to my sister and my brother-in-law again, because they were like sort of the who I felt were the, you know, emotionally the safest people.
Speaker 1:Because, again.
Speaker 2:I mean, my sister was showing me drag queens when I was like 11 years old you know going to come out Day. I'm going to come out and it was so dramatic. I was playing Pierce the Veil on my iPod Nano and everything.
Speaker 2:I was such a little scene baby and I'm like, come on, and again I knew I was in my head I mean, when you're in that headspace of because your life is going to change no matter why and I was like this is going to change no matter why, you know and I was like this is going to be the day that I like I just had to come out. I thought I was going to get kicked out, like I was really thinking the worst and I go in, I slam my door and I was like just sobbing because I knew I was like my life is going to change.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, they're going to find out that I like boys Like what and I'm like sobbing, and, mind you, I lived in a very thin mold household so my sister could hear me just like sobbing, and she's like, well, and I'm like what she's like open the door, and I'm like no, I just want to die.
Speaker 2:And she's like well, you can't say that with a locked door, because she's thinking like, girl, I don't need a suicide up in here. Like no, okay. And she's like, well, you can't say comments like that and keep the door locked. So I unlocked the door and she's like do you want to talk about it? And I said no Because again, I didn't want to come out.
Speaker 2:I was like at, is your job? And he's like, okay. And my brother in law comes in and like Adam, I fucking love this human. He's literally like a second dad to me at this point. Um, he's known me since I was like literally a baby. Okay, so comes in. He's like what's going on, buddy? And I was like, okay, he's like what's going on, buddy? And I was like I'm gay. And he's like, oh, yeah, he's like so why are you acting like such a fucking weirdo? And I was like I legitimately, like my life flashed before my eyes. I was like, oh my God, like I'm not getting kicked out and burned at the stake, and it was just like kind of, it was kind of crazy. But then again, like my mother came at it from a very hesitant standpoint you know she was very hesitant and it was like a little bit more difficult.
Speaker 2:She thought it was like a phase, like all of these different things, and it came from just she's not had a lot of conversations with a lot of openly gay people. Before me, my mother is a child of the like, is a conservative child of the 60s. My mother is a conservative child of the 60s, and it came from just conversation and from coming at things from a loving standpoint on both ends, because, I mean, I was coming out right as my father just passed away.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry to hear that passed away, you know.
Speaker 2:So it was like oh my. So in her eyes, you know, even though I more or less disagree with it, I'm not necessarily invalidating it, but she in a way felt like she was losing a part of her son that she was pre, that she previously perceived me by not that she didn't love me, but it's just like now, like I mean she you have when you're a parent.
Speaker 2:You have all of these expectations of what your child is going to be like, and then when it kind of deviates from that, there is sort of a grieving period that you kind of go through and it's hard on both ends. But at the end of the day, when you kind of come at things from a very open point of view of like I'm just coming here to love and understand and me and my mother we have a very strong relationship nowadays, like in adulthood, like because we've had these conversations.
Speaker 1:Don't worry.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm so sorry that your dad passed away, but I'm like I've been through the therapy, I'm like I'm finally honestly it's like you did the other therapy. This is now my therapy. I've run. That I mean. You know it's made me who I am and you know it's one of those things where I mean people die it was unfortunate that it was at a young age. And yes. I did get a couple bruises from it, but they've healed, yeah.
Speaker 1:But here's the thing, though Parental figures, we still, regardless of how we feel towards our parents as we age, having a parental figure to be there, no matter what, at this stage of our lives, having that compass is always going to be a good thing and even if they don't agree with you on certain things, just having that comp, having them as a compass throughout your life, it's always going to be something that is so important. And when you, when you lose a little bit of that, it becomes harder to navigate because, sure, you might have friends and everybody else, depending on the relationship of who you have with them. It's always the parents that we always go back to, because they know that, even though they are as conservative, they may have different thoughts, the fact is that they are the ones that we go to genetically bound to these people I mean seriously.
Speaker 2:I'm the product of my dad's sperm. I am him to an extent yeah you know, it was really interesting. Um, because I had, like, because of the fact that he did he passed away when I was 12 and everything there was just like this idea of him that I had that was completely misconstrued, that was ultimately put on him so that he felt he could be a good dad Right. Right.
Speaker 2:He was an incredible father. Like seriously, he is an incredible father. Dad, if you're out there, I love you. It's been really interesting, because these past like 13 to 14 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 13, 13 years. Yeah, yeah, it's been 13 years, holy shit 13 years yeah 13 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's been 13 years. Holy shit that he's been gone. Through the conversations I've had with my aunts and my uncles about him there was a period of me where I did go through an existential crisis where I was like, oh my God, why am I the way that I am? And it turned out. Holy shit. I'm literally just the byproduct of my father okay he was very loud and create like.
Speaker 2:He was very intense, like emotionally intense sometimes and, um, he was a very big personality. He was very tall. Like again, he and I like if you look at pictures of him when he was like 20, in his 20s, we look very similar okay and we act very similar.
Speaker 2:It's just I'm a whole lot gayer, no, really. Um, so there was this like sense of identity that was in a way lost, or you know that I had found through these conversations, but, um, it's been a very interesting process because, you're right, there is sort of this figure that is sort of needed in a child's life and everything. And I didn't really start to find that because I had my big brother, I had my brother-in-law and everything. But it's not the same as like a father as a paternal figure.
Speaker 2:Yes, my brother-in-law was a paternal figure and he was a father, but he wasn't my father. I finally started to kind of heal that part of myself. It was sort of a subconscious symptom of training in MMA, of really healing my daddy issues. In a sense, the specific gym that I train at it's called the Academy of Pensacola. Sense the train, the specific gym that I train at, it's called the academy of pensacola. Right, um, there are a lot of incredible fathers who are just there for their children and they treat a lot of the younger men as if they're their own sons including myself.
Speaker 2:You know, I very much felt a very familial energy, and I still do, which is why I'm still training it's. There is such a unique familial energy that's brought into that gym that I didn't realize that I had lost until I, until I experienced it. I remember there was a point where I legitimately started to cry, like midway through my training and it was because it was like tears of joy because I finally felt reconnected with something that I didn't know was lost, and it was because I started to develop this relationship with the coaches
Speaker 2:at my gym. I mean, it's like I kind of like to say that I have like five dads now. You know, there's like coach Fred, there's like coach Paul Toshi, like uh Andis Mike, like Papa John, like all of these people, like these really strong men who are there for their kids, as well as people at the gym. It was just this like oh my God, this is something that I've again, that I found that I didn't know that I had lost and, um, you know, that was just like a huge, that was just like a very positive byproduct of it.
Speaker 1:So when you're talking about that, I was like whoa, it like kind of reconnected the dots of like okay, like this is why I say that I'm good, you know, and because, like, I have that energy in my life now thank you for sharing seriously, thank you for being so vulnerable and for being open about sharing that specific story. No, I that's the. That's why that's the kind of podcast I want to put out. That's the kind of um, vulnerable vulnerability that I want to that I would rather show to people than just saying, yeah, I got, I got five stacks of uh millie cash, I got two g wagons and a lamborghini. That's not the real thing, it's just. But what is the emotional journey of?
Speaker 1:filmmaking and being a creative act you're going through act one, act two, act three. All right, but seriously, though, being open and being that takes. So thank you so much for being open about that and I think, the way I see about it now, I think your dad will feel the same way. He will be so happy about how strong and how much courage that you built up for yourself to become who you are. Yeah, that's something that, if he could, what would be one thing that you would say to him if you could right now?
Speaker 2:I would just be like separate, no, no, um, I mean, I mean even though you lost that, uh, younger age. It's just if I could go and like talk to my dad like for I would just give him like a hug because, like my dad, he had this energy about him where he was again incredibly intense, but he was a very strong and safe person and I would, and he gave like literally the best bear hugs.
Speaker 2:It smelled like traditional old spice, um, like all, like it was consistent and um, that's really what I would do. I don't even necessarily think that I would have a conversation with him. I would just hug him because he left such a strong physical imprint on this world.
Speaker 2:It was so weird because, again, he wasn't so much of an open book, you know, as probably I am that was probably like the big difference and everything. I remember I went to his, like we, when the funeral happened. It was like there were like over 60 people that came up and they were like your dad is the goat and this was like 60 people beyond, like the 150 people that were in our family, like that came along, you know. Um, there was like this small group of like of of scientists that he had worked with because he was an oceanographer for Stennis. Space Center oh wow.
Speaker 1:That was like his whole thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he helped like construct and build like the modern day boobie system like over at Stennis Space Center. That was like his whole gig.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, I'm going to connect one more dot. You said you want to be a marine biologist. He's an ocean. Well, no, he's an ocean, no that was a huge thing, was.
Speaker 2:it was like I was inspired and I was like oh my God, like I have to carry on the, the, the family business. I went more so towards my mother. Uh, you know cause? She was like she's a speech there. It was so funny Cause, um, my mother's a speech therapist, my sister's a physical therapist okay, well, I guess I'm going psychotherapy and you know.
Speaker 2:but originally I thought that I was going to go down the marine biology side because my dad I mean he and I we would go to like the New Orleans Aquarium like every single weekend when I was a kid and he would take me out there and we would like literally look. I remember there was like a period when I was like three years old where I was like obsessed with jellyfish, my favorite animal, because I just like was so enthralled by just their like how beautiful.
Speaker 2:They are, yeah, and they're also like extremely dangerous at the same time. So they're like really beautiful baddies of the ocean and, um, I like was like three years old and I made this entire book and I still have the book. It's called a jellyfish, it's called like the jelly book, right, and I like basically associated like all of my family members with like different species of jellyfish, I like would literally write these papers about jellyfish and all of just like my fascinations with them.
Speaker 2:I mean I can still name off of like all of these little fun, my, my, like. It was just crazy and so I thought that originally that was where my life was headed was down the marine bio, like oceanography, route and it turns out I'm terrible at math and, um, you need to be really good at math in order to do like marine biology and anything related to the ocean, and I didn't think that.
Speaker 2:I literally thought it was just like swimming around and being like a doggy daycare yeah but for like marine animals no, it turns out you need to like, learn like ph levels and like you have to do all the calculations and all that yeah like salinity and like all of that type of stuff, and I was like girl, this is not my gig okay, I just want to like play around with like the little octopi I'm sorry, but this is not.
Speaker 1:This is not a real life disney.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, no like literally, I thought I was like oh my god, I went to college. I was like whoa, this is like gonna be pixar.
Speaker 1:No, welcome to reality well, what the now that I think that's a perfect segue from the jelly book, I guess screenwriting. What led you to the world of screenwriting? Because you mentioned, like poetry, yeah, all that. How did that translate into screenwriting?
Speaker 2:at that point I think like screen especially when it was by accident.
Speaker 1:I remember doing that research you mentioned. It was just by accident it when it was by accident. I remember doing that research you mentioned, it was just by accident.
Speaker 2:It was legitimately by complete accident. So yeah.
Speaker 2:I in high school, I was like very much like an emotional little like poetry writer and everything. My, I had this one teacher named uh, named Miss Prank Miss Prank, if you're here, hey, girl, what's up. She was like, uh, funnily enough, she was a psychology teacher and uh, she was like a coach for, like our slam poetry. She like created this like slam poetry team, right, and I was like, oh my god, these people are like the coolest people ever, right and um, but the thing is is that her like specific way of doing slam poetry was extremely theatrical and everybody was on the team like there was there were these two girls named annalisa graffalo and samantha devon um who did like both these, like incredible pieces and they had a lot of theatricality to their poetic performances and everything.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people they um have this like misconception that poetry is just this deep, like lull-y, like oh my god, like I'm depressed, whatever.
Speaker 2:And there was like again, I'm going to tie it back to this girl, sam, and you need to put this in a tuk-tuk so I can like shout her out, because she, I think, was part of the catalyst to really my creative process, Because she wrote this like feminist piece. Mind you, this was not. This is not appropriate in this day and age. She was like 17 years old and she wrote this poetry piece about um, basically how being a woman is sometimes attributed to automatically being a porn star, and it was just like really incredible, incredibly empowering feminist piece, you know, and um, basically, and how a lot of women, even from like an early age in childhood, are treated as if they are these like enamored, overly romanticized, like sex objects and everything.
Speaker 2:and this is like a girl who's like 16 talking about this and she just spoke in such a way that felt like natural dialogue. It. It wasn't like this, it was very, very poetry, but it wasn't like lull-y and like overly flower-y. There was a directiveness that her speech had and I was very much inspired by that and so that was sort of the catalyst to poetry and to writing it, because I loved how direct specifically this girl, sam's writing was and she just eloquated her words in such a directive way and so I sort of was like okay, that's really, really great.
Speaker 2:So I started writing poetry in that kind of context, you know, in writing just think pieces from a more romantic point of view. And then I eventually wanted to be like a novelist think pieces from a from a more romantic point of view, and and then that led, and then I eventually wanted to be like a novelist and I was like I'm going to be just like non-controversial JK Rowling, like that was my dream. I was. I was like I'm going to make a novel, and I'm going to make a novel and and it's going to sell at a whole bunch of books Like great, awesome. And right as I was finished with my undergrad, I was working at a local coffee shop and I was working on this novel that was sort of inspired by my experiences at this coffee shop and specifically by the regulars at this coffee shop, and one of the regulars was this guy named Chris Jadala who owns a little film production company Kelly.
Speaker 2:O'Bee, kelly O' loving that. Kelly will be yeah, him. And Sierra, like he and his girlfriend, sierra Hobbs were like my regulars out there oh wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we just like became friendly acquaintances, like we would have our little like 30-minute conversations. I was always the guy at the cashier because I could never actually make a cup of coffee for shit Like legitimately. Like my manager Michaela was like no, she's like you love to talk like way too much. We're just going to put you at the cashier's counter, right, and that was like my thing. So I was like always the front-facing person that would make, that would always take these people's orders and everything.
Speaker 2:I mean, chris was always coming downtown for anything, whether it was for meetings, for coffee, whether it was like for anything, and we just built sort of like a minimal rapport with each other. And then there was a day where I was working and it was like my fourth draft of this novel. And he was like what are you working? And he just sees me typing. And he was like what?
Speaker 1:are you working on?
Speaker 2:And I was like, oh, working on this novel? Yeah, I was like, no, I would go to the coffee shop because I would get free coffee and I would just like, even on my off days I would sit and hang out with my coworkers and I would just sit and write my novel. And he was like what are you working on? And I was like oh, just like this tiny little novel, no big deal.
Speaker 1:He was like let me read some of it and I was like okay, and um, wait, can I ask, did that fear you mentioned earlier when you had that uh fear of showing? Yeah, that was like holy crap like oh my god, I was terrified, but I like there was.
Speaker 2:He me and chris already had such a rapport that I felt very artistically safe with him. I had seen some of his Kitty Get a Job skits and everything and I was like okay, this guy's a little bit unhinged in the best way.
Speaker 2:So I was like, okay, I can get down with this guy, I can show him a little bit. And I showed him two or three paragraphs and he was like dude, have you ever thought about getting into screenwriting? I thought screenwriting was something that I was like this is so like out of reach really.
Speaker 2:I didn't think it was possible. And he was like, if you write me a script, I'll get it made into something. And I was like damn. And I was like okay. So I already had the regulars on lock. I literally knew what the characters would say in all the arcs by hand and I was like, okay, I don't know how I'm going to do this, so, but I'm going to do it. And there was just sort of this instinct in my head that I was like okay, this is like something that I need to do.
Speaker 2:So I transcribed the book into a script and I think it took me about a month and a half, he told me. He said if you give me a script and a pitch deck, I'm going to do whatever I can to make this into something. And I said okay.
Speaker 2:And it felt like a deal with the devil. I was like this is going to be something that like I shouldn't be doing, but I was like I need to Because, again, I was also like an active, working grad student, right, and so I was like all right, whatever. So I submitted it to him and he was like, dude, what the hell he's like you did this in like a month and a half and I was like I don't know, I knew it took a while, you know. And he was like, no, and because in my head it took a while, because again I had this like novel, like it was written in the back of my hand. So I thought, oh, you inscribing, yeah, the dialogue of an entire novel is like really hard.
Speaker 2:But, um, yeah, so then it was like we built a bit of like an artistic relationship through there and then, um, a coffee shop named jitterbug opened like six months later over in pensacola, and I met this beautiful shaggy haired queer woman named Lainey and she said, hey, like you're clearly gay and you love to write. They were doing a showing and it was like this it was this one film about the Southern decadence festival that happens in the fall every year by this guy named Stuart socks who he and I are friends now, Um, and it was just like about the.
Speaker 2:It was like about this big queer festival in New Orleans that happened every single year, and she was like why don't you go to this showing? It's in like a week and I was like okay, cool, it was through, I got. That was how I got involved with Stamp Film Festival, and then another two months later happened I get introduced to Del Shores and Emerson Collins and the Dell Shores. Foundation and I'm like hey, this is like a screenwriting thing.
Speaker 2:I'm so new to this, but like I kind of want to do it and they were like well, we have this contest every single year where we try to uplift, like southern queer writers. And they were like you should submit. And I was like well, I have a full-length feature that I could submit. And they were like, well, why don't you also like try and submit a short? So I was like okay, so I submitted the regulars and I also submitted. That was where smoke breaks came to be, when I was like okay, well, I want like extra credit.
Speaker 2:I thought I was like the feature film was going to be my shoe in, right, but then I was like, okay, I like extra, how to write a short film, but I'm gonna do it. And I just kind of submitted it. I honestly say it was like a screw-it script because I literally I wrote it on the first draft and then I, I think I literally did like a second look over like 30 minutes before it was due and then I submitted it and just on a whim, I didn't think that it was going to be doing anything, but I thought I was like you know what great experience, yeah, cool, whatever. I then get a call a month later from emerson collins being like hey, bb, do you want to get on a zoom call? And I was like sure, and we both, like all three of us on zoom, are like what the hell?
Speaker 2:and it turned out that I was the winner of the entire thing, I think I beat out maybe like 15 to 20 other scripts.
Speaker 2:I don't know the the exact number per se. That was just sort of the number that I theorized, because this contest is like a very regional contest and it takes over the span of, like I think, 13 different States and and yeah, I mean, I was like the winner and then that was how it all, kind of that. That was how everything came to be, because, again, there was this like little instinct and I contact like the minute that I found out that I had won the script that I had won the contest, I contacted Chris and I said hey, there's this project.
Speaker 2:Uh, I want to contest for. Let's meet up for coffee. And that was it really, and that was kind of how it all happened.
Speaker 1:First of all, congratulations to that.
Speaker 2:That had to, that had to be something so positive and something so validating, especially with the imposter syndrome yeah, it was, it was very affirming, but I think it honestly for a minute it made the imposter syndrome worse, because I was like why? Well, no, because I was like why, me, you know, I was like what, like you know, and um, well, you found yourself comparing to the other people, even though your story is just as valid as theirs.
Speaker 2:Well, it wasn't necessarily a matter of comparing myself to these people because I didn't know them, but I was like I kept on trying to find the deeper meaning in things rather than like truly accepting it for what it was. And that was like sort of my biggest flaw you. Because the other thing was, is I was like, okay, um, because I had the meeting with chris and everything.
Speaker 2:And basically he was like because the prize money was like a two thousand dollar grant he was like you're like good that you got two thousand dollars, but it's really expensive to make a, make a movie, and I was like okay people.
Speaker 1:you don't know how much it is, no, it's a lot, it's a lot of money.
Speaker 2:And then he and then basically we were like okay, he's like we're gonna make something. Okay, but he's like typically, most projects that we do are between like the 50 and 60k range. Damn.
Speaker 3:I was like how the fuck am I gonna make like I mean I was?
Speaker 2:like how the fuck am I going to make light? I mean, he was like he noted like a previous project of his work. It was like literally 150,000, you know. And I was like whoa, that's expensive, I don't know how I'm going to do. And that was where the imposter syndrome started to happen was. It was not even necessarily like imposter syndrome, of like why me? But it was like, oh, my God, god, how am I gonna do this? What did I get myself into? And um, I mean it all worked out at the end of the day. But yeah, that was like those were the initial feelings of of it all was like how am I gonna do this? I have 2k in a dream and um, but it all just kind of worked out because dell and emerson and the dell shores foundation as a whole. It's really weird because again, I thought I was like this is just gonna be a one and done in one and done kind of thing.
Speaker 2:But really I mean their intention is to uplift southern queer writers and they really do mean it in their heart of hearts. They've literally held my hand throughout this entire process. I mean dell is like a name in Hollywood. He was like best friends with Olivia Newton-John and Leslie Jordan. Like he's literally written for Warner Brothers for like 25 years. Like this guy he was like one of the original writers of the original Queer as Folk in the 90s. Like he is a name you know. And like Emerson Collins works with like some of the biggest drag queens in the entire world. Like he I mean I don't know if amanda follows like rupaul's drag race and everything, but she's no, like she, no, seriously. Like they fall, like I mean, they are active, like and they are constantly on the road working and like doing things.
Speaker 2:And so I thought like, oh, this is like, and this isn't any fault of their own. But my original thing was like, okay, this is just like a things. And so I thought like, oh, this is like, and this isn't any fault of their own. But my original thing was like, okay, this is just like a one and done thing.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna take the two thousand dollar grant, I'm gonna go on the trip for the writers festival, because that was another thing is we got like a paid trip to the writers festival that they host every single year and everything like that. But no, it went beyond that. They like helped me network with people to potentially receive the funding for this film and everything to make this project even possible in the first place, and it was like really through those two, as well as Chris and Sierra, really putting their hand down and giving me, you know, their undivided attention for these meetings and everything that I was able to make this happen. I always say, like this project is just as much there there in the cast as it is my own. Yes, I wrote the script.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was my idea and yes, people happen to respond to it and yes, I directed it. But it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the feeling of community that all of these people kind of provided me well, I just have one quick.
Speaker 1:I have one very a lot. Okay, how hard was it to? Because when we work on something, it's our baby, right. Right, we take care of it. We are the ones that should be the one, like, we're supposed to carry. We don't want anybody else to touch it. How, as a screenwriter, how are you able to trust in their artistic vision to really stay true, as close as possible to the source material, because that doesn't always happen all the time. Sometimes they have a vision where it might be so vastly different. You might feel like, well, I want you to respect the. This is what I've been envisioning for my project and when you hear something completely different, it's gonna be hard, it's gonna be something. Not. It goes beyond just professional, becomes like a personal. For some people. It might feel personal when somebody else wants to change it, even though it's our baby, right. How did you do that?
Speaker 2:a lot of hard conversations. That was really what it was. So there were many iterations of the script. I literally think, like I mean there were different iterations, like I gave the actors like literally a different script like the day before, like I mean there was just like there were always changes going on and a lot of it came from because it was really interesting, because again, you take like a ragingly young, homosexual young filmmaker whose first time is wanting to direct for the first time, and then you also have a DP who has been in film for over 20 years and is a Middle Eastern straight man. Right, there's clearly a difference in experience and clearly a difference in artistic point of view.
Speaker 2:And it clear and clearly a difference in artistic point of view. But Chris and Sierra and I and Dell and Emerson I mean me and Chris me, chris and Sierra would have our own conversations and then we would have conversations with Dell and Emerson. Um, really, it just took a lot of conversations of like how, like there was literally a day where we went line by line of how we want things to look. I, I think it was like six months before. Um, it takes a lot of pre-planning. That was a big thing. That, like, um, erica Dukes like really, really grinded in me was like pre-production, pre-production pre-production pre-production have a strong voice for your film before it's even made.
Speaker 2:Because there's three different identities that it has and I was like, okay, great, cool. I was creating mood boards literally the minute that I found out that I won the contest.
Speaker 2:And it took literally months and months of conversation of what are the references that we want to take on. And so I was telling you know, I sent Chris a lot of this. I think it takes conversation and a lot of trust. But in order to build that sense of trust, you have to have those conversations and you have to have those moments where you just completely disagree on something. And that was naturally met with Chris and I, because we do have two completely different artistic points of view and I think it's really good to kind of like.
Speaker 2:I think having a third person like Sierra was really, really beneficial, you know, in having that sort of middle ground, because she does also come from a queer perspective, herself as a bisexual woman, but it was us three. You know ground, because she does also come from a queer perspective, herself as a bisexual woman, but it was us three, you know, having months and months of conversations and really taking the time to dig deep within ourselves to reveal what the project was to each other. Um, you know, that was like a huge, huge thing. I mean we were literally scouting, felt like the our like shoot sites, like literally two months before, like we even shot, like we took about two weeks in total, like of scouting that that's just pre-production alone.
Speaker 1:You haven't even touched the lighting, I'm assuming. Chris, what has a process where you have to go through the lighting?
Speaker 2:well, that's what we did during our scouting, yeah really was like we looked at every single angle of where we want to shoot and um, it was a very and he told me right from the get-go. He said it's going to be a very tedious process, right, but that's the kind of process that you need to go through in order to make a really like, because he became invested in this project just as much as I was this became his baby just as much as it was mine right and you need to kind of have that point of view from your dp in order to create a good product.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was really weird because there were just times where again, like he and I, we were like creatively kind of at odds, but that also created a lot of strength between us, you know where we were able to kind of take breathers and be like okay, and we eventually came up with stuff that was even greater for the film that I didn't even anticipate, okay, what they?
Speaker 1:first of all, it's like, um, that process. Not a lot of people are really educated in that specific, uh, pre-production phase because they a lot of people think it's just like you can go out and shoot. But in order to really make a great film, you really have to take great care, like we said, in the pre-production, because that's what determines every part of the film going forward, especially post-production, because you don't ever want to go into post-production only to find out, hey, we have to reshoot.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely, and that was a big thing that we were trying to avoid.
Speaker 2:Because, even though we did have a budget, we had a very limited budget compared to a lot of other projects, and that was a big thing that Dell, as a mentor, very much enforced in me when we were going through the different iterations of the script was really understanding the intention of every single scene, every single scene, every single piece of dialogue. How was it going to move the story? What? And then and then going to the DP side, what is the intention of every single shot?
Speaker 1:What is the intention of every single camera movements, choice of color, choice of color, choice of color and everything, and I mean Chris and I, we.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think, a huge inspiration behind the pre-production process was like there was. There's one particular video that I always kind of turned back to and it's like Greta Gerwig's like references all of the references that she made for Barbie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she has, like like references, all of the references that she made for barbie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's like, yeah, she's like over 30 film references yeah, I was like, okay, I need to do that for smoke breaks. And um, I did that and I think I came up with like maybe eight different films in total. That kind of inspired the project in of itself and this is again for like an 11 24 minute film, um unique I. I believe that every great project and I mean this goes with every single director that has inspired me yeah, they have just an entire rolodex.
Speaker 2:And they find how the mayonnaise meets the peanut butter and they smush it together and they see how it works yeah and that's really what chris sierra and I did, with the collaboration of Dylan Emerson did, to create sort of what Smoke Breaks is.
Speaker 1:You just brought us to a roller coaster of a ride when it comes to the pre-production and your process of the entire project. Now, I think I believe you left off where I think it was the screenwriting, where you were talking about what Sierra and Chris, yeah, so sort of how those conversations really went about.
Speaker 2:You know, at the end of the day, I think really creating a space where difficult conversations can be had creates really impactful art. I think, at the end of the day and that's really what happens with the pre-production process is it's like you have to get those conversations out, because the last thing that you want is difficulties and creative differences when it comes to the actual shooting process. At least that's from what. I've learned.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Again. Mind you, this is like my first film set that I had like ever directed. It was the first film set that I had ever technically directed. Like it was the first film set that I ever technically been on. Um, besides, maybe like a little short film that I worked on with a friend, but like this was the first professional film set that I ever truly been on and this was the film first project that I had ever actually directed.
Speaker 2:So I really was like I should have been in the kiddie pool, but I just went into the deep end, um, when it came to the filmmaking process you know, but again, I really was like at the hands of really experienced filmmakers and producers and that was really the direction that they put me towards was like they were like before we even touch of what filming is going to look like, we have to get all of the dirt out right, have those conversations in order to really make sure that the filming process is as uh efficient as possible, because that's the thing with filmmaking. From what I've learned is that it's really a race against the clock.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the last thing that you want is a 16 to 17 hour shoot day where nobody is getting paid. You know, at least that's what I heard, and so I was like, okay, let's make sure that that doesn't happen, you know, and so the filming process for smoke breaks really only took over the span of two days, but it was two 12 hour days. Um, smoke breaks really only took over the span of two days, but it was two 12 hour days, um, some of which was like the most chaotic yet most fun and loving experiences that I've really ever had. You know, um, I really, as a director, I wanted to create a space that was incredibly warm and really what ultimately felt like recess, with a lot of people.
Speaker 2:And a big thing with that was I wanted to help create a budget that was extremely sufficient for people and so that we were able to kind of be treated and feel a little bit more manicured and everything, and that was something that I got very lucky with right but, um, that wouldn't have happened if it again wasn't conversations that were had in pre-production. This isn't even just between conversations that were had with chris and sierra. You know the people who worked behind the scenes, but also my actors and my talent right and um, having that kind of rapport with them.
Speaker 2:Because the thing is is that I also wanted it to really feel like I was working with my friends, with the people who were on set and even though I didn't know really any of them prior to, I think I knew one person, michelle Edge, beforehand, but even then she was like a friendly acquaintance. But even then I didn't get acquainted with her until maybe a year and a half ago when I first did hidden gems. Um, that was when I got acquainted with her, but even then you were just like kind of friendly acquaintances of being right. But before then I didn't know any of the actors, um, prior to the conception of smoke breaks and, um, before we got on set, I wanted to have a very friendly, familial rapport with all of my actors and um again, I I use sort of the philosophy as just as much as this is my project, it is their project.
Speaker 2:I use that with the characters just as much as these characters were written from my brain. These are their characters to act out. And so we got very lucky with um liam gardner and jason jamal lagan and I think you know her, d'andrea mendoza. She's a little creative in the creative scene in the emerald coast. She's a singer she's like a little singer songwriter.
Speaker 1:Really she's over in if I see a face I probably will recognize she's extremely talented.
Speaker 2:She says she's like I've never acted before and she came into audition and I was like that's BS, like you're talented, you are this character through and through. But all of us I mean prior to shooting we had like two months worth of rehearsal where we sat and met, like every other week, for like an hour.
Speaker 1:Oh, so you had a table reading.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had multiple table readings. So that was actually so part of the prize package for the Dell Shores Foundation. It was a live table reading in front of a live sort of studio audience, really, and it was a paid expense. It was like an all expenses paid trip to a southern city the city was in atlanta and um, this reading happened this last february and I remember I had already gotten liam on the shoot, because the story tells the story of a trans gay male and Liam was actually a former student of Del's and.
Speaker 2:Del was like I have the perfect guy for you. And it was so weird because I, if you see him visually, I was imagining the character of Leon as this edgier guy, maybe with a mullet, a couple of piercings, tattoos, yada yada. I just kind of saw him as a little more alternative looking. And then here we come, Liam Gardner comes in. He is a transmasculine gay actor who is not only phenomenal, but he also has piercings, tattoos and a mullet.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I was like this is weird.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And I kind of like texted Chris and Sierra like literally, when I first saw a look of him I was like he's our actor. And they were like, whoa Will, don't jump the gun. Oh no. But we did like, he and I, we did a table reading for a scene that was eventually cut out and he just like knocked it out of the park and this was seven months before.
Speaker 2:This was like almost like we shot this past. Like late May I had him done and locked in in like november of last year damn, that's really fast. And even then we had conversations, like I had met him two months prior to that, because it was one of those things where I just took one look at him and then it was like we were able to get a schedule, like we were able to get a reading scheduled, um, like two months later and I just told him I said listen, dude, like and he's based out in new Orleans. Um, that was another thing that I wanted to make sure is that, like, people in this project were all from the South like cast crew, whatever.
Speaker 2:Um, everybody that was involved is from sort of a city in the South, and so I got in touch with him and I was like he's on lock. And then we obviously had three other characters that we had to cast for and we had the table reading. And then, through, we had the table reading in Atlanta and, in order to prep for the festival, we had readings of like this cast that was kind of in Atlanta and including, because we knew that we wanted Liam to be a part of the table reading, like this cast that was kind of in Atlanta and including, because we knew that we wanted Liam to be a part of the table reading. So we were like, okay, we're going to have Liam be with these like Atlanta actors. And these Atlanta actors were like absolutely phenomenal Shelby, mccall, isaac and then, oh, I got together with these four actors and one of them was Jason Jamal Ligon, and it was one of those things where I felt really really good.
Speaker 2:It wasn't one of those like oh my God, he's like it was. I felt really really good about him for this table reading. And then we did the table reading and I was like, okay, this is great. I come out a week later to Atlanta and Liam and Jason's chemistry for some reason, it was just magic on stage because it was.
Speaker 2:It was on a stage, so they had to kind of act bigger. Um, it was just phenomenal. I just felt a really, really great energy. We ended up getting like a standing ovation for the table reading it was like it was really weird.
Speaker 2:The energy was just incredibly electric and, like all of the actors who were part of that table reading, like I'm just so thankful for all of that because they created that yes, it was my writing but them as actors that created the performance and I knew instantly, because I also had a really great verbal rapport with Jason. I literally texted Chris and Sarah. I was like we have our router and they were like well, like you're now requiring like two out-of-town actors.
Speaker 2:We had such a budget issue like how, like what, but I, like I just had this. It was like this instinct. I was like it's like, like he's it, like I'm not gonna be how, if we have to push back in order to you, you know, make money for budget, so be it, like I don't care, he's it. Obviously I can't like it was so weird because I felt so bad, because I would like praise Jason, like all the time, and I was like I really want you to be it, but I can't say I can't, you know.
Speaker 2:Then, lo and behold, it was like I mean, one of our executive producers like somehow came through and like really believed in the project. And then we have, like these really two great friends who had an, who have an Airbnb. Their names are Kyrie and Eric. Kyrie and Eric they actually own a local business, like a local catering business called Steel Pony Diner, but they also have an Airbnb and they're, you know, they're like a gay couple and everything. And we had been friends just like through the bar scene and I was like really looking around to see if there's anybody that could potentially create logic, because filmmaking is expensive, especially when you're getting out of town actors, because you can't have everybody just crashing on your couch, and I wanted this to also be a very comfortable experience for everybody, and I wanted to. I wanted, uh, jason and liam to feel extremely comfortable as actors and to be to feel like they were really well treated because of the fact that they were taking the time to make this thing happen, and so you wanted to give them an experience yeah, I wanted to give everybody an experience, and so I mean everything really just like miraculously, just kind of like it just kind of happened it fell into
Speaker 2:place. It really all kind of fell into place and that's like the biggest thing that I have to say with like filmmaking is that if you do the preparatory work, everything will inherently fall into place. And, um, it was like literally d'andrea and mich, michelle and Jason and Leigh like they all had such a fantastic like conversational chemistry with each other.
Speaker 2:It really I mean everybody was just so amazing with each other and I mean we still have like a little smoke breaks cast like group chat where we will just like sit and talk and like I just absolutely adore all of them and it's like I made like beyond just making something really really good I made some really really good, amazing, amazing friends who helped me make something really really good, and um, it was like again it was two days, it was seriously again like some of the most hectic things, because I think with every film shoot, there's always stuff that is going to happen it's going to happen, no matter what, and you have to be prepared for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there were like mistakes that were made and like all of those different things. And like chris and sierra sat down with me to kind of express those mistakes and, um, you know, it was like it was one. The same time, I mean, everybody in the room and I'm not even really necessarily being hyperbolic Like everybody in the room of this project really just had a really strong morale and thought like, oh, we did something really really good here Because everybody was having fun. We're telling a story that I think people need to hear and I believe that it's a story that needs to be told. And again, like there was just such a natural rapport with pretty much everyone, I think that like in order, like I don't necessarily think there is a way to kind of create chemistry, it's just there or it's not, and that sounds a little bit cynical, but, um, that's really what was felt like, because I it was.
Speaker 2:It was very much a risk because all four of these actors lived in completely different places. I mean, deandra lived in dustin and the closest person that she could connect with to do rehearsals is probably Michelle, and but it was like it was just so. It was very much like having that physical chemistry test was very much a bit of a roll of the dice. I mean, jason and Liam had the table reading prior but they didn't, you know, because there are some scenes where they are a little bit more physical with each other. They didn't have like rehearsal of doing that. It was very much like we are doing it on the fly, you know. And so that's where I say like chemistry can't, naturally it's either.
Speaker 2:There you can't recreate it, yeah, you just can't recreate it, and what these actors like really created was something incredibly special and I'm just so entirely grateful for them because, as much as they can say like, oh my god, like I'm a good director because they've said that, you know, it's really them that made the project what it is actually that's a great segue because I actually wanted to ask specifically the standing of vision.
Speaker 1:That had to be another sign of validation to your imposter. Please tell me it did not get worse. Please tell me. No, I just cried. That was like a it was.
Speaker 2:I think that was the moment where I was like, okay, I knew that I had a really good script. When I got told that I was the winner Right, great script, cool, great. I was the winner, right, great script, cool, great. Second part is because when you are the director of a budgeted project and everything, you can't really hire a casting director, so you kind of are your own casting director and everything and the casting really was like all done by this guy named Chad Dyer and Emerson. Emerson was very much like a huge part of it and really finding these actors. So I was like, okay, like seeing these four or five, because we also had a fifth guy named Isaac who did the narration for all of it. He did such a great job at like really narrating what the script, what the screenplay really was.
Speaker 2:I thought, okay, like this is a script that also sounds great or sounds decently, you know, through people's voices, you know, and how it like these jokes land, these, you know, monologues land, okay, that was like another feeling of validation. It wasn't like, oh, my God, this is going to be a great film, it was just further validation of, okay, what I wrote down was decent, it was good. It was like cool, great, and I gave something that these actors could work with. And that is like I really again, like my biggest thing is I never wanted to kind of get all the way up in my own head and up my own ass. I just didn't want to do either of those. So I really tried to be in the present and I was like okay, I have something good that these actors can work with. That is solid. And it gave a standing ovation and I was just emotional because of the positive response that it received.
Speaker 2:I didn't think of myself like, oh my God, this is such a great project. Oh my God, I'm a bad actor or I'm a bad writer getting I just thought this is something good. And I mean Dallin Emerson also said like this is something good. And the people who are on the board of the Del Shores Foundation, they really said they were like you've got something good and I really try to keep it in the present of at this festival.
Speaker 2:Okay, it is a great table reading. It is a great table reading on a stage in front of these people. Now, whether that's going to be portrayed well on screen, who knows, I don't know. That's only going to be told once we're behind the camera lens and we see it play through, okay, and then, thankfully, these actors are just phenomenal. Liam Gardner is a fantastic actor and I think that he this isn't to sound hyperbolic or anything, but I think that he has the potential even though he is like literally from new Orleans and everything and he's not in LA or anything like that I think, with just how well he was able to portray this character of Leon, he has the potential of being a voice for this queer generation of transmasculine actors.
Speaker 1:And that was really what I wanted to someone who's literally taking the responsibility of showing that message that might or will represent that community. How does it feel to have that ability to finally do that, and how are you taking great care to make sure that it comes across the right way?
Speaker 2:so it really takes like consultants people who are within that demographic Right.
Speaker 2:So I think I'm like very much involved with the local queer community in Pensacola. So I did have two or three transmasculine individuals who spoke with me, read the script and I thought like, ok, is this an appropriate story to tell? You know, are you comfortable with a cisgender gay guy telling this kind of story? Okay, and I sat and I talked with them, I talked with their concerns and everything. I even talked to Liam himself of things that can be improved Because, again, I wanted to give him the power of just as much as this is my script, this is your story. If there is something that you don't feel comfortable saying, if this is something that you don't feel comfortable saying, if this is something that you don't feel comfortable doing, please let me know, because a script can always be adjusted.
Speaker 2:There was nothing in that script that I thought like, oh my God, this is going to make or break, like whatever, right. I thought I came in it with a very yes and approach, like, okay, you don't feel comfortable with that, fine, all right, cool, let's make a Joss Vance. And um, it was really through finding consultants of the demographics that I was like really speaking. I was like, really speaking to I like I mean, even with, uh, the character of Cece who D'Andra played, I spoke with a couple of Latina, like she's she's a, uh, puerto Rican woman. Um, I spoke with like a couple of Latina women who, uh, you know, fit that kind of demographic and I said do you know fit that kind of demographic? And I said do you feel comfortable with me kind of portraying this woman?
Speaker 2:like this and everything, and you know they very much were like holy shit, we love this character and I think it's just one of those things where it's important to be mindful of the people that you're representing in all capacities.
Speaker 2:I think, like if it is a woman, you know, showing a man who fits a certain stereotype to consult with men who may be fit in the into that stereotype, I think if it's a you know straight guy telling a female story, you know, hey, is this something that you know like? Do you respond well to this story? Do you understand my intention with it? It and it comes down to also having internal conversations of what is your intention with these kinds of things and, um, was this a story that I felt comfortable with? And I didn't feel comfortable putting this story on screen until I spoke with these trans consultants that's actually really that's.
Speaker 1:I think that's a lot of considerate considerations that many people should start taking in, especially when dealing with topics like this and also representing all kinds of communities, race and ethnicities yes but it's not often talked about because, like um, we all want to do, like, oh, there's gonna be a great film, it's gonna be, you just want to make it.
Speaker 2:Yes, you just want to make it. But it's like I, if I were to sit here, like and make a, create this Asian character who, like, is just completely inaccurate or offensive, you know, of like Asian stereotypes and everything, and I were to just put it out, I mean, that's just like, that's just not being a considered person, because that's not my story to tell. You know, yes, I can like, yes, you can write. You know, I do believe that there are people of like, people of different demographics that can tell different stories, of people who. But I think it's really important of like, including the people who represent those characters in the conversation. They should be inclusive.
Speaker 2:They don't necessarily have to be in the writer's room, but at least like, be like, how do you feel about this character being portrayed? You know, take a look like, do just a brief run through of this script how do you feel about this joke? How do you feel about this? And that was really kind of the approach that I had, because I don't like, I mean like I want to uplift the trans community as much as the trans community has uplifted me. And that was really how I felt is I felt like I had a serve it like I had a service to provide because I was given this opportunity of telling a trans story, but I wanted to do it in the most respectful way possible sometimes, when you do it in a way that's very distasteful, it doesn't really do.
Speaker 1:It does you a major disservice as, especially as a creator, you have the power to represent more, whereas most people might not have the same opportunities as you do. Having that ability to create a specific message that literally accurately represents everybody, that's a, that's a very. It's like an egg.
Speaker 2:You have to great, take great care to make sure you don't drop it, otherwise at the same time you're just gonna have a room full of yolk, and what's that gonna do for people? You know, and and and that's the thing, I guess, when you said it's a disservice, I think it's a disservice to the writer itself from telling a better story yeah because if you're sitting there relying on your own artistic point of view, I'm sorry, your opinion or your perspective ain't ish.
Speaker 2:It takes a village really and it takes a multitude of different perspectives. And so, like I mean, yes, I could have sat here and like gone off the first draft or done certain things and yada, yada, yada, but it would have done a disservice for me because I would have, I would have lacked the conversations I have in my brain now if I just went off. You know of my own perspective. Thankfully I didn't necessarily have to change much of the script, really, because I really tried to be mindful initially and everything. And it received a very strong response from the trans consultants that I did speak with, you know, trans consultants that I did speak with, you know.
Speaker 2:But I wouldn't, I would have done myself a disservice, just even as a human, by not allowing myself to have those conversations in the first place. Because again, I thought in my head like I really want to be as respectful as I can to the trans and queer community as a whole. So let's take the proper precautions. And I mean again, if it's not my story to tell, it's not my story to tell. And if the trans community didn't feel comfortable with me telling it. I'm sorry, I wouldn't have like.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't have. But once I received sort of the okay, I was like, okay, now we can move forward.
Speaker 1:Again, thank you so much for sharing a lot of that. And second, that you actually it's great, you're doing great with the segues. The segues is with the screenwriting. Oftentimes when we're writing certain scenes, we get married to it like no, this should not. I love about that what you said when you made sure that each scene is not the make or break. Not a lot of screenwriters, or at least from what I know there, it's just like no, if, if this gets removed, oh my gosh, everything's gone. So, with the fact that you took that approach and make sure that not all of the scenes are make break, can you describe some of the scenes that had to be taken out, and it was so painful, oh my God, yeah.
Speaker 1:So there was like this one particular scene.
Speaker 2:And this was a conversation that, like, literally, me, dylan Emerson had. Okay, so like there was. So, okay, this project itself there's sex in it Just straight up saying that, okay, there's sex in it and there, but there was one, there's sex in it. But so the entire project itself, it talks about the idea of unconditional love within unconventional circumstances. Okay, so there is, you know, and really what that looks like. So when me, chris and Sarah were kind of like talking about these certain things, we're like, okay, we had this idea of like having a fight scene that kind of challenges these two characters' unconditional love for each other, and it was like after the like post-sex high and everything, and after the plot twist that I'm not gonna name or spoil, but it was gonna be this huge like dramatic, like fight scene of like it was gonna be a marriage story kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Oh of like it was going to be a marriage story kind of thing. Oh, like the Adam Driver it was very intense, like yeah, you know that one. Yeah, adam Driver, scarlett, johansson, that one.
Speaker 2:Like you're such a dick, that thing. So it was going to be like I mean, I still kind of have this scene in my back pocket because I think that the scene in and of itself is very, very beautiful. But we were talking with them and they said you're inherently telling a love story. Why are you ending it with these hurt, sore feelings? Really Okay, and it was difficult, because I fell in love with this like fight scene so much.
Speaker 2:This particular scene was the scene that I auditioned Liam with, because I think the fight scenes are the greatest like maker, like and this is just my opinion as an amateur filmmaker are a really great tell of somebody's acting ability. Because, I mean, fight scenes can get really cringey really quickly. You've seen them. It's like you know, you've seen really really bad fight scenes. And Liam knocked it out of the park. I was like there's no, like, oh my God, I need this thing to happen. It also like revealed like transphobia within the queer community, like all of these topics of conversation. I fell in love and you know me, chris and Sierra all fell in love, but this was something it didn't with the time that we had. It just didn't add to the story and it didn't add to the message. It actually tainted the message that we were trying to tell.
Speaker 1:Because of the negative feelings, yeah, because of the negative connotation that it inherently had, you know. What would you have done to modify it so that it wouldn't meet within the message that you're actually trying to tell? What would you have done to change it? I just wouldn't have put it in.
Speaker 2:Like it just wasn't right with the story that we were trying to tell.
Speaker 2:Okay, I think I would have just not made it a short film and a feature instead. You know, because I do believe that there is a, because I do believe that there is a, I do believe that there is inherently, like, a place for this particular scene and for this particular fight scene. But I just don't think that this particular project, with the amount of time that we have, it's not necessarily the most appropriate Because one of the characters again, like I mean, I've fallen so deeply in love with and everything like that. It would have created a negative viewpoint from the audience.
Speaker 1:And that's not what you want to do, especially with the community that you're representing.
Speaker 2:No, exactly, and that was like really the biggest thing is again, this thing is our baby, and sometimes you've got to kill for the babies, you know.
Speaker 1:Danny said the exact same thing, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like that was like I mean, that's a huge, that was like a huge thing and that was like a big thing that Del kind of enforced me and he told me himself he's like, I love this scene in and of itself, like it really is, but I just don't think it's necessarily.
Speaker 1:How hard was it for you to hear that.
Speaker 2:It was hard, but at the same time, I was understanding of it. It wasn't like this, oh my God, because I still have it in a separate Google Doc it. It wasn't like this deep, oh my God, because I still have it in a separate Google Doc. It's there. It's just a not right now kind of situation and that's really how it is. And the biggest thing that I kind of want to emphasize is that, with the way that screenwriting is, I think, again, there are some people that are so strict on you've said, that are very strict on what this script is, but that's not necessarily what life is like, and I think that with life, it's a very yes and approach and I think that people should have a very yes and approach to their screenwriting as well, you know, be open to pretty much anything.
Speaker 2:I mean that was like a big lesson that I took from I'm such a Gerwig stan. I mean that was like a big lesson that I took from I'm such a Gerwig stan. But like Gerwig literally has like a 300 page document because she just let every single idea happen and part of the yes and process is cutting out which ones don't fit. And that was really what I did. I think I had like three total scenes I cut from the project altogether because of the fact that they just skewed all the way from the overall messaging, from the story.
Speaker 1:That's really hard Because even as someone from a position where you are the one that you create everything, it's just really hard to not get your personal feelings in the way of the overall picture, the community that you're trying to represent. But to get the personal feelings just have that compartmentalized. It's so difficult because once when a project becomes bigger than you imagine, it becomes bigger, it morphs into this message that you know is going to impact in a large community and it no longer is about your personal gain that you would get from that project. That's when you start have to start to learn how to make sure that you set a boundary for yourself in a project as far as setting your personal feelings and the people that you're trying to represent that's really hard, absolutely, absolutely, and I think also I mean at the same time, I mean it wasn't even necessarily, I wasn't necessarily even about it from a like my own point of view, or the audience's point of view.
Speaker 2:I was really thinking about it from the point of view of the characters. Does this make sense for this character to kind of react the way that they're doing, to react the way that they are, you know? Does it make you know it? Just, it was one of those things where I, like, was like the best way that I could kind of describe what cutting this particular scene out was like. We already had a fully colored picture from a coloring book, right? Yes, I thought, oh, wow, here is a great thing to add to this already completed picture. So I drew something along the tracing of this additional picture on a loose leaf sheet of paper and I colored it in and it fit exactly perfectly. But again, it's an additional, it's not the completed project, and it was one of those things. I already had the soul of the project, I already had the soul of the film, but I wanted to create more. But sometimes less is more.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And sometimes again you can have so many ideas, but it's like where is the thread? And we had the thread, but then it was like, with this additional scene it started to become knotted scene. It started to become knotted and it started to become a little discombobulated. You know, and again it's a very beautiful scene I think that if there was like a bigger canvas for us to work, that thread easily could have become not no, longer knotted yeah but we don't have that space given the span of a short film, and that was really kind of how we settled on certain things.
Speaker 2:It's like, does this properly reflect the story that we're just trying to tell? And it just didn't. There was a slight misalignment and I believe that everything inherently just had to kind of properly fit.
Speaker 1:So now we're going to pivot back from the screenwriting. Now we're gonna put yourself in the shoe of a director. Keep in mind people, keep in mind. This is will's director. I think that's how you say directorial. Yeah, debut. I have speech impediment. Don't shut up after that. Okay, that is now your first director directorial his first project.
Speaker 1:I'm just gonna relegate to that your first project as a director. How does it feel to now finally take the reins of someone that is creating the scene, from watching things go from paper all the way to in person? What was that experience like for you?
Speaker 2:it was, was a very emotional experience. Honestly, I didn't realize. So one of the biggest things that, like Chris and Sierra, really critiqued me about and this is something that I fully believe, that constructive criticism is like a must when it comes to the creative process, when it comes to the directorial process they pretty much said that like one of the biggest things that I had was like I had so much anxiety to the project that it kind of came across as like overboastfulness Over what, but a lot of it came from just the fact of like oh my God, this is the first time that I like when it came to being a director, I thought I had to be the big man in charge. I thought I, this is my product and this is something that was like it was. I came at it from a viewpoint of compensation, overcompensation. When I was initially going into it, I thought I had to have it all figured out. I thought I had to answer every single question.
Speaker 1:I thought I had to answer every single thing.
Speaker 2:I thought I had to be the man with the iron fist Turns out being a director. It's a lot more passive of a role than I think a lot of people give credit for. Really, and this is just my perspective. As a director, you are to serve as the eyes of the audience, the eyes and ears of the audience, of the people watching the project, the project. You're not necessarily supposed to and, yes, you could give points of view when it comes to certain things and how things should be choreographed and da-da-da-da-da-da but ultimately your job is to serve as the eyes and ears of the audience seeing does this look good? Do you like the way that certain things are moving and everything.
Speaker 2:And a lot of the directorial process, I think again happens before the actual shoot. It's understanding the microexpressions that the characters are giving on screen, with your actors in rehearsal. That was one thing that I very much emphasized, because I knew how to do a rehearsal. I didn't know how to do a film set, so I very much was like let's have two months of rehearsal beforehand, you know, so we can go over these certain things.
Speaker 2:When it came to actually being a director, I was like literally, I mean, I was just like completely frazzled because this was a complete different arena. Again, I was somebody who needed to be in the kiddie pool, who went and jumped off the deep end with no floaties and obviously, like I had floaties that were Chris and Sierra, like they were my lifeguards, you know, and they are seriously the best lifeguards in the entire world but at the same time again, I had no experience. I had no floaties for experience and even just like I had very little experience of just being on a set in general, I didn't fully understand the rhythm of certain things and but at the end of the day, despite all of these like things I'm kind of saying negatively about myself, it was the most fun experience I'd ever had, because ultimately, I was just creating art with my friends and I think that's really the approach I think every director should have is, you're literally just getting played.
Speaker 2:You're, you're getting paid to play pretend some things you're not getting paid, but ultimately you're just playing pretend with a bunch of friends, I think making art you really got to give yourself more credit than you think, because not okay.
Speaker 1:People that don't push themselves in a environment where they're extremely uncomfortable and they feel like they're plateauing and they feel like they're not learning. I think if you had stayed in the same spot before neck by next year would you have been happy with yourself.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, no, I would have hated myself and I would have been like girly, why didn't you do that Exactly? No, and I definitely do give myself a lot of credit. I can say I did something really, really hard, and that is something that I'm proud of.
Speaker 2:I'm so proud of really the work that we created as a team, what I did as a director. I'm genuinely very proud of all of it. But at the same time, I also think it's important to really be, you know, critical of like I come at things from a growth mindset, like how can I move forward from all of this? Like what could I have done better, you know, and everything, and that happens with every single project. Have done better, you know, and everything. And that's how that happens with every single project, um and but and and so like I really try to look at things from from both points of view.
Speaker 2:I try to look at things from uh, you know, uh, a viewpoint of growth, but I also look at things, you know, I mean I did something that was like really hard and it was like so much fun, and that is like something that I can't, you know, trade for the world. I can't like we literally had the best crew on it. Like I mean, granted, again, it was my first, it was like my first film set directing, but like everybody on the crew was like absolutely amazing, from like Eric Mitro to like Fabio of Fresco, recording like every single. Like the thing that I loved so much was about this directing process is, again, I was just working with people that I loved and adored as people. That was a thing that I very much enforced to Chris and Sierra, because Sierra was like our leading producer, she was the person that was basically gathering and, like her and Chris, both were the people that were gathering and the people that were working on this project.
Speaker 2:I told I only want to work with people who I previously acquainted with and who I genuinely like as people, and they did that, and that's really what this project really what this like directorial debut came about like turned into was. It was a directorial debut where I got to make a really, really cool film with all of my friends, and that is like the greatest achievement that I probably could have asked for as my first time directing that's.
Speaker 1:That's gonna be the first one that you're gonna attain down this path. Keep in mind, there's gonna be better and bigger things on your horizon, so this is the first step towards that, and that's that's something to be proud of seriously.
Speaker 2:The only thing that like would have made it better was like if my friend danny was there. But those were.
Speaker 1:There were external circumstances there were external circumstances uh but you're coming here, uh, smokes break, smoke break too yeah, like smoke break too, danny is on.
Speaker 2:Danny is on the project because, again, he is like. He's been like my creative therapist throughout this entire process. He's just been my rock throughout everything and that's the only thing that I could have said probably would have made this project better. It was like if my bestie was there.
Speaker 2:Really, but I mean other than that it was. I was hanging out with all of my other besties at the same time and it was just awesome. I mean me and Liam and Jason and Michelle and Deandra is like telling everything. We just like get on like we're friends. And me and Chris and Sierra, we get on like we're friends and I just as much as they've become mentors for me, they've become like really just great, great friends and I just that's the biggest achievement that I kind of gained from this. Yes, like I I always say like the achievements are going to come when they come, but the relationships that I not only had but I cultivated through this process is really just the real reward well, I think I want to add to that all the achievements that you accomplish won't feel meaningless if you don't even have the people that to it with.
Speaker 2:Right, right, and they were out there. I mean we're having like we're, so I think it's like kind of official. I don't know if I could like say, I mean, if you say it like, it's like basically like kind of a done deal, but we've anticipated, you know it premiering over at Stan Film festival in.
Speaker 2:Pensacola, like our LGBTQ film festival and that's an achievement in of itself of like getting into a film festival, but like it's the fact that I get to sit and celebrate this Cause I mean I've pretty much told, like Jason, liam and like the entire cast, I said, like you guys are coming out and we're celebrating you guys, um, that is what I'm like excited for is like seeing all of my friends again all in one place you know, cause.
Speaker 2:It's very, you know, sometimes, when it comes to creative projects, the times that you get to sit and work with your friends they come few and far between, and when you have those special moments, it's like fantastic. And it's like we have like 700 photos and like Hannah, hannah, like the photographer right she, hannah Degart the photographer right, she's our BTS photographer. She and I were friends even prior to all of that. I asked her. I was like do you want to come on to this project? She's like, of course, when she was sitting here taking pictures, it was like, again, she works over East Hill Pizza in Pensacola, but it was like I was sitting here hanging out with her at the pizza shop and that's what the entire process was like. And when it comes to my directorial debut, it's like I can never really look at things from an achievement base, but I look at things of like the biggest reward was just my friends. That's it, and also the idea of being able to provide an opportunity for my friends.
Speaker 1:Oh, that is a great feeling in it by itself.
Speaker 2:That was like a big thing, was like I have this, like I was given this opportunity of being in a position of power, of being able to kind of employ people and help pay their rent. Yeah, and you know, rent is like probably the biggest struggle that everybody has. But like that was an amazing thing. That was a big thing that I very much enforced was that everybody on this project was going to get paid at least something, you know, and that was very much a big thing. That me, chris and Sierra talked about. That was like part of the struggles with the budget was like how are we going to be able to pay everybody? But we ended up killing it and we ended up getting to it. But yeah, I mean, and I had like a friend who, like, had never even been on a film set before Andrea Romano, she had never been on a film set before and I just just like I felt this need. I was like she needs to be on the project, she needs to be on the project.
Speaker 2:And I didn't know how. She kind of played like a PA, like hair assistant kind of role and it filled my heart of just being able to provide her with that kind of experience, you know, because that was something that she was never really given prior. But I felt like she kind of deserved, because she is like such a sweet and amazing personality to be around and I was like, of course, like she is my hairstyle, so I was like I want her to be a part of something, and when we were able to kind of nook and cranny the budget a little bit and figure out something, you know, it was like it was amazing. And I think that was really the real reward was how much I was able to get. Hmm.
Speaker 2:Uh, and not necessarily what I was able to really receive, cause I've been like this project. I've received so much in creative. And you just want to give back, yeah, yeah, and that's like my biggest goal is like just to as much as I receive, I want to give equally as much of that energy, and I feel like I did that with this project a friend of mine in nashville told me this um with people.
Speaker 1:Well, actually, if you want to go fast in whatever you this that you do, you do it alone, but if you want to go farther, you do it with people right and that's exactly what it sounds like happened to you and that's, I think, and also try not to lose that caregiving, because the amount dude, the amount of uh credit that you just gave to the people that worked on your project is not something that's always talked about, because people at a higher position, when they're further in the career, they don't always, often, give credit to the people that really, truly work, because it's not, and most of them just walk like yeah, I did this. Yeah, that's right, motherfuckers, I did this shit. No, they forget and they get it up to their head that it's also the team, so it takes a village yes.
Speaker 1:So don't lose that if you keep going on this path of the director, don't lose that part well, no, and that was like a big thing is.
Speaker 2:I was like, if I ever become like a douche, can I like shoot me please? Because like no, I mean seriously, and um, that was just like the. That was the biggest thing that I very much tried to not portray was like because, again, I think there are sometimes where you get a little power, hungry a little bit, you get a little bit of a power trip and everything and that's really what I try to do is I just want to give as much credit as I can, because none of this would have happened.
Speaker 2:None of this would have happened if Liam didn't like the script and he didn't want to be a part of it. This wouldn't have happened if, like Jason, didn't want to be a part of the project. You know, I mean, that's just how it is. Like this wouldn't have happened if, like Chris and Sierra didn't decide because they're busy and booked Like they have a whole production company that is booked throughout the year. They are constantly on film shoots Before, like before the film set. Like the film shooting.
Speaker 2:Like Chris literally did like a full week trip in the Middle East, like a film shoot in the Middle East Damn, literally got off a plane, slept for like 24 hours and then shot Smoke Breaks. Like it was crazy, sierra was doing smoke breaks while she was also doing full rehearsals for Ren, while she was also working for a full-time job as a producer for Calliope Films. These people have full-time jobs and they still devoted the two 12-hour days of this project. That wasn't going to pay them that much and the fact that they took their time and their energy and they believed in the story that much, and they believed in my vision as a creative.
Speaker 2:I'm like it like none of it would have happened if they didn't believe in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they didn't make those kinds of sacrifices. So, obviously, like, you have to sit and give credit when credit is due. And the same thing goes for, like our head hairstylist, nick Martin. I mean, he's a full like working hairstylist and everything, and he came in on his day off, you know, like to do a 12-hour shoot. He literally went into work the very next day. Oh my gosh. He literally went into work the very next day. Oh my gosh. You know, so many of these people took time out of their lives to make this project happen and so obviously I'm going to sit there. Yes, I'm the director. Yes, I'm the writer, yes, I'm all of this. I get it, but it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the people that took the time out of their day to make this thing happen. It took a lot of ingenuity off of a lot of people's schedules and a lot of people's time and energy to really make this project for what it is.
Speaker 1:I mean that goes to show that, the dedication towards your project. It just goes to show that you really do have something important. I think that's a great Dude. That's another sign of Now we're almost out of time. I'm so sorry, guys, this has been a great podcast episode. No, yeah, absolutely. But I do want to wrap up with a few questions here Now, going into post the rough cut, now that you've seen it, what does it finally feel like Now that you're almost it? What does it finally feel like now that you're you're almost?
Speaker 2:we're almost there we're mount everest.
Speaker 1:This is your mount everest. You're about to?
Speaker 2:no, no, no no, no, fuck it's my machu picchu right, no, no not even mount everest.
Speaker 1:This is. This is literally, you're about to take the first step to, uh, find your foot into the moon. This is your moon, and you're gonna say one giant small film, one, I don't know how to. But in that, in that analogy though, now that you've seen everything, you've gone through those hardships, the achievements, the heart, the sacrifices, what, what does it look like for you now, at this post-production stage?
Speaker 2:I just see possibility okay really that's like the biggest thing. I've already been rewarded so much, just, you know, in regards to my soul and everything.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:On like a very spiritual level. This has been a very spiritual process for me and it's been a very huge moment for self-discovery. I just, you know, I ultimately just see an opportunity to, you know, potentially create more and uplift more people, Cause that's really where I come at it when it comes to my artistic point of view is.
Speaker 2:I just really want to uplift more people and helping fulfill their creative journeys just as much as Kristen Sear and Delnett Emerson have helped fulfill mine. Um, I don't know. I mean I have a couple of other things like kind of in the works. Really that's really exciting. We I don't know if I should spoil this now, but fuck it Whatever. We have a really really cool, amazing person that is going to be releasing a single related to the film.
Speaker 2:I can't necessarily say who, but they are a local little indie artist who I've just grown to love and adore, and when I heard their voice for the first time, I knew that they were the voice for this project and I just know that they're really going to do this project justice, whether it's in the film or not. That comes down to the final edit, really, but has it?
Speaker 1:been colligrated? Has it been colligrated and added with the sounds? Where is that?
Speaker 2:at. It really hasn't been colligrated in regards to the rough cut. Yes. It was really just a feeling of affirmation. It was really I was so nervous because I was like, oh my God, this movie could be so bad. I don't want it to be, I don't think it is, but you know there's always a possibility of things happening. But it solidified of like this calm feeling of like we've got something good.
Speaker 2:It wasn't this like super grandiose feeling. It was just like this like super grandiose feeling. It was just like, all right, okay, we've got like another thing and now I mean we're still in the midst of editing it and we have like so many creative ideas of how we want to tell this story really, and it's really just I mean, that's really kind of how I see it. Um, we've already kind of submitted it to a couple of film festivals because, they've seen the rough cut and they want to see more of it.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's just a feeling of calm excitement, to summarize it really.
Speaker 1:It's got to be.
Speaker 2:I'm not like, oh my God. I'm like, oh my God, like you know.
Speaker 1:Does it almost sort of almost have this sense of feeling where it's like anti-climatics, Like?
Speaker 2:huh, yeah, like it. It feels surreal in a sense of like oh wow, it's happening. Yeah. You know, but it also feels like, I think, in the beginning of this entire process it felt inappropriate because I didn't believe in myself.
Speaker 2:Okay, but because of all of these kinds of experiences, I'm like, okay, great, awesome, cool, this is really really great and I just hope that people like this project. That's really my thing is. I hope that it leaves a positive impact on people. I hope that people feel inspired to create more art and I think also I want people to get a sense of the ingenuity that the Gulf Coast film scene has to offer. That is another thing. Everybody that's involved with this project is from the Gulf Coast and from the South in some capacity. Really, I think again, liam and Jason are our two actors, but Jason is from Atlanta, liam is from New Orleans. They're both from the South and I really just want to show what the Southern film scene has to offer.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great goal to have in mind, Because this area we need help.
Speaker 2:No tax incentives. There's so much talent here. There's so much talent here. So please, to our local, local governments, please give us tax incentives, because stuff is being made.
Speaker 1:It's so important they don't really recognize that we.
Speaker 2:We could win a couple of emmys yeah, well, give, yeah, get.
Speaker 1:Please send some money please.
Speaker 2:That'd be great, you know and and that was like the thing is yeah this was just an opportunity for me to show the cool ish that pensacola's gotta offer yeah all the locations that we have are like local locations and they're extremely beautiful and it's like I can't wait for you to see really what this film looks like, because I've grown just such a love for not only this project but also the places around me, you know, and that is, people get caught up in the idea that you have to be somewhere else.
Speaker 1:I'm in that. I struggle with that.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think everybody does, I think everybody does, but I think, like right now, I mean as long as you Like, I think those opportunities come when they come. I always think of, like my friend Roderick who literally just.
Speaker 1:Are you talking about the one who moved to?
Speaker 2:Atlanta. Yeah, I think of him because literally he moved to Atlanta just completely on a whim, because he had to, because him and his family got kicked out of his house and everything, and he somehow got a roommate within the span of like three days and stuff and he got like it was just all on a whim for him and I think, like everybody's going to have their gust of wind to potentially move somewhere else. But I think that if you have the opportunity, really dig yourself deep and make something where you're at, because it is possible.
Speaker 2:I just don't necessarily think people think it is possible. I just don't necessarily think it. People think it is possible but it really is. There's people that want to see stuff by local filmmakers and there's people that want to support those art, those weird artists, creative types really here. Um, it's just a matter of really finding them and finding those people who want to support. God damn it. But there are. It is so hard.
Speaker 1:Actually, that's why I wanted to create this platform with Hidden Recording Beyond Just Podcast. Eventually, people like you will find other. You know that. Saying whoever you surround yourself with will also attract the people that you want to be around with. That's what I want to do with this podcast.
Speaker 2:Well, you are doing it because you are taking the time to, you know, sit here and interview. You're doing the work in of itself and that is important and that is beautiful. No, no, no, really, really, really. You're giving people a camera to sit. You are giving people the opportunity to sit behind a camera and tell their story, and that's beautiful and that's impactful in of itself. You know, you yourself have the potential of really exposing people to what the South and the Gulf Coast have to offer because you take the time to do this.
Speaker 2:That means a lot.
Speaker 2:Thank you no really, really, and you are like such a phenomenal interviewer. That is something that I have to say. Like I've talked with a multitude of people and it's one of those things where you I mean, just as you said, that I don't necessarily give myself enough credit. You don't give yourself enough credit. You know, I like really and I think, like I mean, who knows, Like maybe down the line, if I like, do you know, make more projects and everything? There's more creatives that I can send over to you and be like, hey, you should interview this person because they are totally in the up and coming or whatever, and I don't know. I'm just thinking kind of in hyperbole right now. But I think that this podcast is a really, really, really cool thing and I think that you're doing a lot of cool really good work.
Speaker 1:Same thing with you. You're doing a wonderful work. Well, I have so many other questions, but you know what guys Just like Smoke Breaks 2 podcast. We're going to do a sequel to this episode. Are you up for that? Let's do it. Let's do a sequel to this episode. Are you up for that?
Speaker 2:Let's do it.
Speaker 1:Let's do a little project after when is that film coming out?
Speaker 2:We are premiering it to the public. The anticipated date obviously things might be subject to change and everything, but the anticipated date is October 5th of this year at Stan Film Festival over in Pensacola, florida, at the Pensacola Little Theater. The really amazing thing about this particular film festival is that they make sure that it's extremely accessible to everyone. So it is a free film festival to attend all three days that it kind of happens and is open to the general public. It's completely free. You can literally sit and watch a whole bunch of movies for free, like over the, and you know, yes, it very much targets like LGBTQ cinema and everything like that, but really it's a space for pretty much everybody. Anybody is welcome to it, and so the premiere of the film is anticipated to be October 5th of this upcoming year. Remember of the film is anticipated to be October 5th of this upcoming year. Remember that, people, october 5th, october 5th, 2024. And again, it's free. It's free.
Speaker 1:The only cost is, you just give your time.
Speaker 2:And there will likely be snacks and drinks.
Speaker 1:No alcohol.
Speaker 2:I mean, there is a bar at the theater. Don't get drunk. I've been served a pinina grigio over there. Okay, if you're 21 and up, there will be dreams but just be responsible yeah, be responsible uber home now with a few questions.
Speaker 1:You kind of answered this already, but where is what's the next chapter for you?
Speaker 2:so the next chapter for me, um, I think right now um is kind of going through the film festival circuit with smoke breaks. Um, I have hopes, like so it's. I have deep, deep hopes to potentially expand the story, whether it's from through the lens of a feature film or a TV series. I've written a couple of scripts that kind of expand on the love story of the characters of Leon and Roger. But just because those characters don't know how to shut the fuck up, really like these two characters, they just know how to keep on talking.
Speaker 2:Really, in regards to the film world, that's kind of where I'm at is really just kind of riding the wave of the festival circuit to see if people like it, you know, and everything, and if things continue to expand. Yeah, the thought that I'm so open to the possibility of like potentially turning it into a series or a feature film, either format I can work with, okay, uh, really, just give me the money and I'll do it. Uh, and you, you know, in regards to like other creative stuff, I mean continuing to train in MMA, because that very much has a positive impact on my filmmaking perspective. Weirdly enough, you don't know how mixed martial arts really has an effect on it, but it does.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's something we can dive deeper into the you know sequel episode and then continuing to work as a Now that you've gone through the process because this has to be some sort of therapy for you too, because it's shown you different experiences that you had to learn from other people, on top of what you experienced as a person going forward what can you say about yourself that you're so proud of now?
Speaker 2:I'm just genuinely proud of the fact that I made something really really cool. I think one thing that I can say, and that maybe other people attest to, is that I have a pretty strong work ethic. I think this project kind of proved that, just because and I think originally it stemmed from anxiety of like, oh my God, if I don't get this done, da da, da, da, da da. But I think really I have a sense of grit and if I have a goal I'll do everything and anything in my power to really make sure it gets done. I think that's kind of proven. That's really proved itself over time and I think that this project is sort of a culmination and really a a visual depiction of that work ethic, because a lot of hours went into it and a lot of time and a lot of care, a lot of sacrifices too.
Speaker 1:Now, was there anything that I'd never, that I had not, that I have not given you an opportunity to talk about to speak about. I mean, I think, everything, we've really covered everything well, on that note, what is one thing you want, what is the message that you want to leave for this episode to the people, specifically those that have struggled with their identity, and especially expressing that through creative projects like what you're doing now? What would you say to them now?
Speaker 2:I think if you got a story to tell, then tell it really.
Speaker 2:No, seriously, Seriously, Write it down whether it's on NetGen, whether it's in a Google Doc, whether it's on a screenwriting software, whether it's through a TikTok, if you have a perspective that needs to be told, there is no reason why you shouldn't tell it. Really, that's what I firmly believe, because there is going to be like, whether you believe that it's going to resonate with people or not, it will, and there will be somebody that kind of finds connection with it in some capacity. I mean, all of us have a complete different story to tell. Really, not all of us are the same. I think the human experience is very nuanced.
Speaker 2:And so if you are a young creative who is maybe struggling with their identity in any capacity, just tell it like seriously. I mean, there's no reason not to. Again, I came into this wanting to be a novelist and I would just write these stories for myself and I just happened to have gotten lucky to have a person who was in a position to see my work really. The other thing is is like make friends with your creative community. There are some creative scenes I've been to and it's very cutthroat and that's so unnecessary.
Speaker 2:I think if you come at things from a very communal energy and if you come at things from a place of let's just be there for each other, you're going to get cool shit done, because that's what happened. This project is the culmination of that communal energy that we've all felt towards each other and I think, specifically within the South. That's really what it takes. I think it takes a lot of grit, it takes a lot of conversation and I think it just takes a lot of time behind the computer of sitting and getting your thoughts out.
Speaker 1:At least that's what I have. I just have to say I can't get over. The first thing that you said was conversations Throughout the entire interview. That message stuck with me so much and that was what inspired the title of Smoke Breaks in the first place was because the story itself was inspired over.
Speaker 2:My sister was a. My oldest sister is a hairstylist, right, and she's a smoker, and whenever she was like working on her client's hair or anytime that she was taking lunch breaks, she would always go out and smoke cigarettes.
Speaker 2:And there was such I found there was like such a weird intimacy that was there whenever people would sit and talk over a smoke cigarettes and there was such I found there was like such a weird intimacy that was there Whenever people would sit and talk over a smoke break.
Speaker 2:She would sit and make friends with like the homeless people on the street and they would tell her their lifestyle story. She would sit there and tell the gossip with like talk about the gossip with her coworkers and everything, and I was like, well, what is a story that I can tell that is kind of representative of that? Because my there's a story that I can tell that is kind of representative of that, because my sister found extremely deep connections through something that could inherently kill her and I thought that that was so interesting and creatively fulfilling and so it all stemmed like, yes, we talk about conversations and the importance of conversations, and it was through those conversations that my sister would have that inspired all of this and it's so mundane and so common, but there's so much message to it, depending on who, like you, you just took that mundane and so common behavior and turn it to something much more meaningful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so beautiful it was something that was inherently meaningful for me because. I mean when my father again this goes back to like the trauma right Like when my father just passed away. When we were going through all of this chaotic turmoil or emotional turmoil, my sister would sit and she would smoke her cigarette. I would talk to her about anything and everything, whether it was the Neopets that I had just bought on my computer or if it was like the kids that were bullying me at school.
Speaker 2:She was sitting there and she gave me the space to have that conversation and I thought sometimes the most life-changing experiences happen because of a smoke break. Most life-changing experiences happen because of a smoke break. There would be times when, like, a best friend of hers would tell her that she just got engaged over the smoke break. There would be times where my sister would hear from her client that her child just died. Oh man, like all of these things, but it would happen over something so mundane. Or there would be times where my sister would be given a job opportunity over a smoke break.
Speaker 2:Something that would completely change her life. Again, something that we look at, something is so mundane but it's so deeply personal.
Speaker 1:I think you could not have chosen a perfect title of that film, of this film You'll see more what I mean when you actually see the film Again October what October 5th?
Speaker 2:October, what October 5th? Comb of that of this film? You'll see more what I mean when you actually see the film like again, october what october 5th?
Speaker 1:october? What? October 5th? All right now. Where can people find you?
Speaker 2:okay. So, as I said in the beginning of this uh podcast episode, I don't know if you're gonna have that part recorded, but you can find me on my personal instagram at swagmasterbox5000. It's a mouthful, but I love it. Okay. So that is swagmasterboxtop5000. So swagmasterboxtop5000. There's a whole story behind that Instagram name.
Speaker 2:I could go in for another hour and a half, and then you can also for all thingsts and information in regards to smoke breaks. Uh, you could go on the smoke breaks film instagram just at smoke breaks film and follow for more and, with that being said, thank all right guys.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for watching this episode. We love you so much. Um, stay tuned for the uh smokes break two and this podcast episode two. Danny, you're watching this. You better make sure you free up the schedule to be on that project oh my god, danny, please make this a little podcast threesome next time what huh?
Speaker 1:podcasting threesome yes podcasting I'll kick your ass if you don't show up yes, he's gonna show up for sure I'm gonna still gotta kick his ass. Anyways, thank you guys, so much for watching this episode and, as always, stay tuned for the next one. And that is it, bye.
