Hit-N-Record
Welcome to Hit-N-Record!
I'm Keno Manuel, a filmmaker passionate about exploring the stories of creative minds and sharing their journeys with you. On this channel, you'll find authentic, inspiring conversations with innovative creators from filmmaking, photography, and beyond.
Every episode, I sit down with local creatives to dig into their successes, challenges, and the lessons that shaped their paths. Whether you're an aspiring filmmaker, an entrepreneur, or someone who loves personal growth, Hit-N-Record is here to spark your creativity and motivate you to achieve your goals.
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Hit-N-Record
"If You Want To Be A Filmmaker, Show Up And Do The Work Every Day." | Unlock Filmmaking Success with Daily Commitment and Strong Leadership with Chris Jadallah
Join us as Chris Jadallah, owner of Calliope Films, takes us on a captivating journey through the filmmaking landscape, sharing his personal experiences and the lessons he learned from his mentor, Dane. Chris opens up about overcoming challenges in regions with limited opportunities, like Pensacola, and how he found his footing in video production. By reflecting on the parallels between his journey and the mentorship seen in characters like Spider-Man and Tony Stark, Chris highlights the essential role of guidance and support in shaping his career. Discover how his passion for video storytelling is intertwined with a mission to empower and nurture artistic growth in his community.
Navigating the complexities of personal and professional relationships, Chris shares invaluable insights into running a business with his life partner, Sierra Hobbs. From maintaining strong communication to balancing personal relationships with a shared passion for filmmaking, Chris offers a candid look into the dynamics of working alongside a loved one. He also reflects on his leadership style, shaped by his formative experiences in a high school drumline, and how these early lessons translate into leading a film set and fostering a supportive environment for newcomers in the industry.
Explore the intricacies of the business side of creativity as Chris discusses setting rates, valuing clients, and the persistence required to thrive in the creative industry. From the unpredictable nature of film production to expanding opportunities between New York and Pensacola, Chris shares his vision for a "bridge of opportunity" that connects creative minds across different locations. Tune in to hear Chris's inspiring stories and valuable lessons that offer a unique perspective on pursuing a fulfilling career in filmmaking while staying true to one's passion.
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If you're saying I want to be a filmmaker, so what are you doing to do that? Right. The answer is typically ah, you know, I got a script I've been working on for four years. I'll say no like what are you doing right now? The answer is typically nothing. You want someone to take you seriously. You have to be disciplined, like show up and do the work.
Speaker 3:What is the one thing you could say to your younger self with where you are?
Speaker 1:now. You know, when I was in high school, I was like you know, I'm going to get famous on YouTube, easy, right, someone's going to discover me there. That's tough Like, even like last night. You know it was a shoot we did, it was a passion project shoot, yes, and it, you know, beat me down. Even when it's so tough, Like man, I'm so glad I get to do this is, you're never good enough.
Speaker 1:You're never there, you get better. Okay, so you're doing this right. Yes, so your status quo what you deem is passable also does this, so it creates this paradox that you're not getting any better. What you deem is passable and good is also rising at the same level that you're getting better at, so you're like this sucks. I suck at this all the time.
Speaker 3:Everything that you've worked for is always going to lead to somewhere.
Speaker 1:Go support your creative friends and your artists. That is the only way art can grow is if you show up and show people that there's a demand for it. If you don't go, then it doesn't exist. Art exists and what we do exists because people choose to go. If you're a filmmaker, and what we do exists because people choose to go If you're a filmmaker, people buy tickets to go see those movies, right, if they don't buy those tickets, then it doesn't happen.
Speaker 3:Welcome back to another episode of Hidden Record. Guys, my name is Kino. I'm not going to do my socials, it's just there. It's in my description. Okay, I'm not going to spend 30 seconds talking about my Instagram.
Speaker 1:But we will spend the next 30 seconds on hello. My name is chris jadala. Uh, I own calliope films. I've been doing sketch comedy for over 10 years with kitty get a job, um, and and a bunch of other stuff here in the community in pensacola, trying to elevate uh film and video production in the area guys, we're gonna learn a lot of banger tips about film.
Speaker 3:No pressure, okay, no pressure. You heard a little bit about jim, now we're gonna dive into film. So, chris, tell us on your deepest, darkest night, on the day that you were put on earth, what is your mission in life. You know, for some reason I always come to the idea that you were put on earth. What is your mission in life?
Speaker 1:You know, for some reason I always come to the idea that my purpose is it's kind of I have like a dual purpose. I think one of the things I always preach that's something that really makes me feel good about what I'm doing is I like helping get other people where they want to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, be or, you know, at least helping give them the tools to get where they need to be. I know how hard it is to want to do something like this. It's really hard, especially really hard in this area. This area does not really provide enough opportunity to make it a career for a lot of people, so I think people get disheartened and I hate to see that, because I know how bad it feels to like want to do something and not be able to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it breaks my heart for people, so I really I try to help people get where they want to be.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:And also I feel like I am put here to do something positive with video, whether that's share people's stories or try to use my video for a greater purpose than me, understanding that what I do is bigger than me and that's huge. You have to understand the power of video. I'm doing some social media content. I'm about to do a video about this, calliope Corners guys, you know it's a I'm making. I'm actually I'm doing some social media content. I'm about to do a video about this, caliope.
Speaker 3:Corners guys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, check it out. But it's, you know it's. With great power comes great responsibility, oh my gosh. The Uncle Ben quote Are you a big fan of Spider-Man? I'm a huge fan of Spider-Man, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:Sorry, sorry, peter, uh, andrew, or tom holland, which one? My god, honestly, they were all so lovely. I, I hate, I, I don't like the beef between them all. I think they're all so good. I think, uh, I think, for the longest time before marvel stepped up, spider-man 2 was the best comic book movie ever made from toby mcguire. Yeah, the doc ock one that was the best agree until until you know.
Speaker 3:Uh, iron man, that was the best superhero movie you actually thought iron man was better than spider-man.
Speaker 1:I think so, but even though it's tough, I I saw I mean I recently I need to re-watch iron man. Um, I recently re-watched spider-man 2 and it held up. You know, it wasn't as strong as I remember, because marvel has done such wonderful things yeah, their universe. Um, but spider-man 2 was like man, that was such a good one. You know to have a, you know the hero, or to have a villain you felt for.
Speaker 1:Like what a cool concept you know. So now I really like that one. But what I was saying is you know a good video can change someone's mind, so you have to be. You know you have to be careful of what you're doing with that. You know there's a lot of misinformation and you know if you make a video that does something that has a negative impact, whether you meant to or not, it can be scary. So, just understanding the power of what you do and understand that it's bigger than you.
Speaker 3:Damn. Okay. Now we're going to pivot into the analogy of Tom Holland with Tony Stark. Now let's apply the dynamic between the two. Now we're going to take a walk a few steps back into your earlier life. You're like the little Tom Holland, and now you found Tony Stark. That's his mentor. Who was that mentor for you? You found Tony Stark. That's his mentor. Who was that mentor for you when you said because one of the things that you mentioned about how you said you want to help people, how did that mindset come to you at an earlier age, into where you are now, and who was that mentor that really opened up your eyes to that?
Speaker 1:I think the root of it came from daddy issues. You know not, not having that figure in my life. Okay. You know, I never I guess I never wanted anyone to feel like that. So you know, having someone believe in you and say, hey, you know what you can do this, that was important to me from from the get, that was important to me. I used to think I wanted to be a dad and now I don't think I do.
Speaker 1:But, it was because of that. Now I feel like I just want to help other people when I can, but one of my first great mentors he actually was our DP for the shoot yesterday. Since I was in front of the camera, I couldn't be behind it. We make a rule that if I'm going to be on camera and my lovely director, sierra Hobbs, who is Thank you for everything you do, sierra, thank you, sierra. She's a producer at Calliope Films, but she's also my partner in life and I feel so lucky to get to work with her.
Speaker 1:It's a privilege, but she was our director and Dane was one of my first mentors taught me what a softbox was, taught me how to light for the first time, where to put the lights, and that was huge. Before I met him, I'd never set up a light truly before, and he opened my eyes to a lot of things for sure. So I credit him as being my first great mentor and someone who gave me a shot when I did not deserve it. I say did not deserve, I was not qualified for it Perhaps.
Speaker 1:I deserved it, but I did not have the qualifications to be on set. But he let me on set and let me carry around his very heavy cases and, yeah, that's how I started, you know. And he, yeah, was huge.
Speaker 3:Wow, we got a lot to unpack here, guys. All right, this is about to get crazy now, so grab your popcorn and soda. No alcohol here, okay, popcorn and soda, maybe, preferably some healthy juices. But you just said a lot of things here. We got to unpack, okay.
Speaker 1:Oh God.
Speaker 3:Okay, I actually one of the things when I actually went through your website when I saw that Sierra Hobbs was there and then now that you mentioned that she was your partner in life, that's actually really very rare, and how I see it is that a lot of people don't get many opportunities to have a partner in life where they can have a world where they can share and make memories with together. How did that come about? How did you work together to make, get some understandings and some boundaries set, that, whatever it is that you guys love to do in film, you always want to make sure that you're protecting um your life outside of that. So how did that work out?
Speaker 1:you're a wonderful interviewer, by the way. You're very good at this, just don't forget to leave the google review. Don't forget to leave the Google review.
Speaker 3:Don't forget to leave the Google review. I will, he's great.
Speaker 1:This guy knows what he's doing. I like the way you talk, so it was very difficult In the beginning. It was challenging In the beginning. We almost had to say all right, I'm talking to you as your boss, as your co-, your coworker, and then, you know, I'm talking to you as your spouse, like we had to like we had to have those talks.
Speaker 1:Now it's I don't know if the line is just more blurry or if we've just, we've just gotten better at it, yeah, but no, we, she, she cares about it. I mean it is, you know, it's not only, it is our livelihood, you know, we, we both, are taken care of by this company that we know we have now created.
Speaker 1:And made something more, so it takes care of us. So you know. And then the other thing is, like people talk about say all the time, you know, business is not personal, business is personal. I don't like, I don't care what you do. Really Business is personal, absolutely. I mean, it's your livelihood, it's your food on the table. You don't you know if, for some reason you know, if somebody you know goes after one of your clients or something they're getting in between you and your food and your bread, and then especially what we do, like what I do, business is. I don't think business gets more personal than what I do, unless you're, you know, a doctor or a nurse or working at you know a retirement facility Like that's personal, that's your job, but that's personal, that's your job, but that's personal.
Speaker 1:And we tell stories. I mean we interview. You know I've interviewed folks in a homeless shelter and you know when I end the day, I went home and laid in bed and stared at the ceiling and cried. Like just the amount of you know, the amount they dumped out and poured onto us was just. It was a lot to carry and it was like in our job to continue and carry the story.
Speaker 1:But it's important that it was personal. It was important that I let myself be vulnerable and let myself feel those things. Not carry them, but feel them. Right. That's important because it allows me to tell the story and connect with them. So we're doing a very personal thing anyway, where we are in a relationship we love each other very much and then what we do we also love very much, and both of those things are pretty personal. Obviously, relationship is personal, but I do think business is personal, especially if you're an entrepreneur, if you own your own thing.
Speaker 1:I mean, calliope Films is like that is my heart, my soul, my baby. You know that is like something I've created. You know, if the day comes where Calliope Films no longer exists, it's going to be a hard day for me.
Speaker 1:Okay, I mean because it may be kind of. You know, it's a big part of who I am, my identity, and I'm comfortable enough to say that I don't think that's an issue. I think it's okay for it to be personal. That doesn't mean you wear everything on your sleeve all the time and whatever, and of course I have to work on that all the time and not let my temper or my mood get the best of me because I'm so personally wrapped up in what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:But if I don't, show up ready to tell these stories or personally connected to what I'm doing, then I'm doing a disservice to what I do. But to answer your question, we handle it very carefully and gracefully and even today I was already critiquing our shoot yesterday and talking about what we could do better and all this stuff. And she's like Chris, chris, I need to just take a day and think about it. Let me just have a day to pout and just lay around and relax after a hard shoot like that. But I'm ready to immediately like what can we do better? I need to recognize that she needs a day to process.
Speaker 1:I'm not that way. I like to talk about it when it's fresh. She does not, so I apologize. I said I'm sorry. I know you need time to process this and I apologize, so let me rewind. Let's revisit this when you feel ready to talk about it. So it's things like that. This communication is so very important and we still work on it, but we're getting pretty good at it With the business.
Speaker 3:With the statement that you just said, where business is personal, that is actually true.
Speaker 3:But you know those cop shows like Law Order okay, law Order, chicago PD.
Speaker 3:You know how, sometimes, when the cop gets a really bad case and they take it home and they vent it, it out on their spouse, their husband or wife or whatever, how would the, even with the, with the thing that you said about communication, all of those things that you have said with your partner, how do you still make sure that, beyond communication, you take, what are some of the other steps that you take to make sure that, even if you have the worst day on a set, what are some of the steps beyond communications and also understanding how they are as a person, because it sounds like she's more of someone.
Speaker 3:I think it's like a I don't know, forgive me, I'm not a psychology uh, anxious attachment or something where their personality is defined by how they react to their situations. For her she needed some space, but for you you want to get into it right away. So what are some of the steps that you take, uh, beside, beyond just communications, to make sure that nothing that happens on set that is bad will always be uh taken out on your partner no great question.
Speaker 1:Um, I have two answers. So, um, I actually, you know, I um know I'm in the market for a new therapist, if you know. So when I was in therapy, I talked about this actually, and it was more like you know, because when I do a full day on set, I mean they're typically 12-hour days and for me it's typically a 14 or 15-hour day because I'm always going to gonna, you know, I'll be there early, I'll be there late, just how it is, and I've accepted that's okay. Uh, but there is definitely a part of me. When I get home, you know, I'm like electric still like I don't.
Speaker 1:I can be tough to communicate with, I can be tough to talk to, I can be tough to be around. Okay, I can be being. You know it's tough. So, uh, something one of one of the advice my therapist gave me was create buffering zones. So in between activities, give yourself a buffer zone. Be alone for 15 to 30 minutes, whatever you need. So after like a long day on set, you know, don't go right into a conversation with your spouse or talking to your you know landlord about your rent issues or whatever the heck Like, don't get into another difficult conversation or any conversation.
Speaker 1:Give yourself buffering zones. But do this through everything in your life. So, like and I'm pretty good about this in my self-care in the mornings because I have my alone time, I give myself you know three hours of you know basically alone time in the mornings with my workout and my coffee and my walk Very important to me. That routine is so important. But after the gym I need a buffer 15 to 30 minutes to reset, get back in After a shoot day, you take a little buffer. If you have a really hard conversation or a meeting that didn't go the way you wanted, take a buffer 15 to 30 minutes be okay.
Speaker 1:Um, that was huge. Um. And then, uh, sierra and I are pretty good at like uh, taking turns being the hero for each other, if that makes sense yeah so like we. It's apparent whenever one of us has had a hard day or had a hard time on set.
Speaker 1:So, like, I know what she needs, I know what she likes, I know what's going to make her time better and she knows what I need and what I like and what's going to make you know, my life a little better in those hard moments. So, like, I think we we do a good job of taking turns, being the hero for each other. Okay, you know, even if we both had a hard day, I'll be like all right, I got to put my stuff to the side right now.
Speaker 1:She needs me and that's okay. And then she does the same, like she'll know, like it's a parent, you know who's had the harder day. You know, yesterday it was a parent, she had the harder day.
Speaker 1:So like, yeah, like you know, whatever, I whatever brought her pizza on the couch, you know whatever, like make sure she had what she needs, do a little extra steps, that kind of stuff, because I I want, you know, I love that I get to work with my partner and, yeah, you know, we're working on a director dp relationship, so I want it to work out, you know, and I want to make sure that we can be each other, be there for each other right when it's needed so she's your mary jane, or mary jane or gwen st Stacy.
Speaker 3:In this hero for each other, which one is she I?
Speaker 1:don't know. That's a good question. I think it sounds like Gwen Stacy. I was going to say Gwen Stacy, but I don't know.
Speaker 3:I'm about to grow. You right now do it outside of the partnership. How do you take that to achieve your goal of helping other people? You said you wanted to create Buffer Zone the reason why I bring that up in conjunction of uh with how you want to help people. There are some. There are some people that when they need to learn, when you help them, sometimes they need to take a space, uh, especially one given with a huge variety of information that is so helpful in the career. And then, after that, you also said you want you and Sierra show up as hero for each other. How are you doing that for the people that you're trying to help?
Speaker 1:good question. I mean, it's um, it's complicated, it's hard because I have um. I have a lot of people that that reach out to me fairly often um you know and I, I it's, it's flattering, you know they, you know it's uh, quite.
Speaker 1:How do you get in the business? You know, I just had a call when I sat down. Yeah, are often it's flattering. How do you get in the business? I just had a call when I sat down. Are you hiring Stuff like that? It's just not really how this industry works, unfortunately, especially around here. But no, I think that the best thing that I do. I was working on a set a long time ago and I was 20, 21. It was actually over in Fulton Beach and the director made a fool out of me in front of the whole set. What why?
Speaker 1:I didn't know what a piece of gear was. Okay, and he sent me to the truck to get it and I thought I could you know. Obviously what you should do. If you don't know what something is, you should ask. Right me say what you should do. If you don't know what something is, you should ask. But on this set I didn't feel comfortable to ask. He hadn't made me feel comfortable to ask questions.
Speaker 1:So, I was scared to ask questions for that reason. So I go to the truck and I'm looking for this thing. I don't know what it is. It was, I think. He asked for a floppy at the time I didn't know what he was talking about. So I go back to him and I say I'm sorry, I don't know what a floppy is. And he embarrassed me in front of the whole set, like you know, made an example out of me for not knowing that's pretty toxic I agree, but it left a mark on me and I was like I never want to make anyone feel that way on my sets ever.
Speaker 1:You know, I never want that ever. So, and also when I was trying to get started, nobody would make the time for me. I mean, I would I reached out to anyone and everyone I thought could help me. Yeah, you know get started.
Speaker 1:Nobody would talk to me, nobody would grab coffee with me, nothing. So I said, hey, if I ever get a tiny platform or any kind of space in this industry, I'm going to make time for you. So that's the biggest thing I do is, if you reach out to me and, like I told this young man to just call me today, call me tomorrow, I'm doing something right now, yeah, right here. Call me tomorrow. Okay, if he does like, then we'll work. That's like my test and I hate to say that I do this, but it's like. I feel like if you can't do this step, then it's not, probably not a good fit for you. I say you know, follow up with me, reach out to me. Right.
Speaker 1:Set up a time with me and then we'll grab coffee and talk. You'd be surprised that weeds out about 90% of people. Nobody follows up and so when you don't Even after the first request. Well, yeah, they reach out. They'll see them in person. They'll see someone in person like hey, I would love to talk to you about the industry or whatever Like yeah follow up. I'm on Facebook.
Speaker 1:Instagram. I'm really easy to find. I'm the only Christian dollar within 2,000 miles, like you can find me. I send them my email, whatever they need. You'd be surprised how many people do not actually do that step. What it's crazy If you just follow up guys. One of my first early clients, I tell this story all the time. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I emailed them once a month for six months to get a response and they finally responded. Then I had to email them again once again for another three or four months. Then I finally got a meeting with them and they became one of my biggest clients.
Speaker 3:Oh, so client communication is so important in this thing so important yeah. Guys oh, my gosh, wow. So you take the time to do that on a consecutive basis to make sure that routine is always there. That's a hard thing to do because that's that's it's. I don't think a lot of people realize the importance of doing that it's not like one of them. It's just, it's not a one-off job and you just move on if you want to do it's exactly like we said.
Speaker 3:You have to reach out to them every on a consistent basis.
Speaker 1:Let them. If they tell you to stop, then stop. You know, you know, but until then don't. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. So like, go after it. That's the thing. Yeah, keep going, do it, but no, that's the thing I mean. So what I do is I try to create space for anyone who is willing to do that first step. Reach out to me, set up a meeting. I'll grab coffee with just about anyone. I probably grab coffee with somebody once or twice a week just to give them advice on what I think they should do next.
Speaker 1:So like that's it, just like my little part of paying it forward.
Speaker 3:I suppose the one thing that I want to circle back on is how that one director made a fool out of you. That one director made a fool out of you. It goes back to the leadership style that somebody has. Um, that actually has a huge impact on the people that they lead, and for that director it doesn't. It seemed like that that kind of leader that he was was a very toxic one and I'm sure I have no doubt that formulated the kind of leader that you would like to be and in your, especially in your company. And how do you say it again, calliope?
Speaker 1:Calliope, there's technically a bunch of correct ways to say it. I always say if you're saying it, then that's fine. You say it how you want, as long as you're saying it.
Speaker 3:I have excuse, I have hearing aids. Okay, I have speech imped.
Speaker 1:I'm half deaf, so it's all good, oh, okay. Okay, as of 2020, just went half deaf Just turned off. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's called left or right. My right ear Is that moderate or completely?
Speaker 1:It's severe. It's like it says I have my little test hanging on my fridge. Yeah. It says like severe to profound and like the members are doing this, Wait, are you going to get hearing aids? Or not, so this year works great. Okay, this one just shut off and it has tinnitus Out of nowhere. Yeah, I woke up one day and it was gone. It's called sudden deafness. I don't know. They don't know what causes it. Whatever, I'm sure drumline didn't help.
Speaker 3:I actually recommend Phonak. That's the one that that's what I'm on, that's the one that I use um I recommend it.
Speaker 3:But going back to the leadership style, so that, director, whoever you are, if you're watching this, I hope you're a better leader now, but with the leadership style that it seems like, after being exposed to that type of leader, it it sounds like it shaped your view. You want to help people, you want to take the time to reach out to them and especially, especially, being open enough to share your knowledge. That's a whole different type of leader. That's in contrast to that person. What is something that you can define as a good leader for people that are wanting to become, become like that, especially in this film industry, when they're so surrounded by toxic people? It's just so hard to do that. Do you have to follow the hierarchy? If you can't do this, then you're not out. This and that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think I'll take this from the angle of, like, um, being a leader on set is who the director typically? So, from a directing standpoint, uh, there's an awesome documentary on YouTube. Uh, it's called um. I think it's called like. Basically it answers the question like do you have to be a dick to be a director? Yeah, I think it's called like dick director or something it's 30 minutes. If you type in like do you have to be a dick to be a director on youtube, you'll find it 30 minutes long.
Speaker 3:It's very, very good is this the guy with? The gray hair, the white hair.
Speaker 1:Yes, you've seen it then.
Speaker 3:He's the one that did the Catch, the Predators, or something he did a series.
Speaker 1:Oh God, I haven't seen that one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was doing it, he was up above it. Yeah, I know who you're talking about. Yeah, but do go on yeah.
Speaker 1:That guy. So he coined a term that I adopted early on with Kitty Get a Job, our sketch comedy, which is a whole other bag of worms, like that's intense. But basically he coined the term disagreeable giver. He listened to somebody mention that and what it means is. This is what I think being a good leader on set is.
Speaker 1:Set has to be collaborative. Set has to feel like everyone is a part of it, because everyone is a part of it. But you have to make them feel that way too. You can't just say it. So one of the most important things to me and I literally I start every set, I give a little speech before every set, we have a pre-production meeting, we gather in a circle and I say these things like every single time. You know I'd be ignorant to believe I have the best idea all the time. That's why I'm surrounding myself with you guys. So if you have an idea, please pull me aside and tell me. My only ask that you don't shout it across the set, because I believe in one voice to the crew, one voice to the director, that's really important to me because if you've ever worked, you know with, with, you know talent on set.
Speaker 1:If they hear four different people saying four different things, they get confused. Things get weird.
Speaker 1:Like what am I doing? He said I'm gonna do what you said. It's like, well, now it's weird. So no one voice to the talent, one voice to the crew, but you want to give everyone a platform to speak and to have a voice down to the PA. That's what I think Okay. And the idea of a disagreeable giver is you should have, you know, your vision so locked in. You know, as a director, you should have a vision and it should be so locked in on where you want to be.
Speaker 1:You should say no, 95% of the time, 95% of the time, but you listen to everyone. Okay, that's the key. And there's that 5% where the idea comes in and it's like you know what. That is a great idea.
Speaker 1:I'm talking about like ideas, like for creative right not like we should put the light stand over here most of the time they're probably right, um, but when it comes down to your vision, like you should be, so dialed in and like this, doesn't, it shouldn't come from a pretentious place or a place of ego, but a place of preparation. You have an idea and you have it dialed in so deep that you know it should be. You know, as close to infallible as possible. You shouldn't need you know more idea by the time you get to set. Now, before then fair game, let's talk about it all day. Rip my idea to shreds by the time we get to set. That can't happen. Set is so expensive. Being on set can be very expensive.
Speaker 1:We spend easily $25,000 a day being on set, so that's not the time to make idea changes Sometimes, sometimes it is but you shouldn't be making big swings for the fences on set like that. Preparation, pre-production is the most important step in production. Coming in our next Calliope Corner video, we talk about pre-production the most important step in production. Coming in our next calliope corner video, we talk about pre-production oh, do you have a separate social for calliope?
Speaker 3:corner?
Speaker 1:sorry, I don't it's all jumbled into one and um. It's our effort to try to give the algorithm what it wants.
Speaker 3:So oh, you want to follow the algorithm. I believe that great content will get you there. Don't follow the algorithm.
Speaker 1:hey look, hey look, it's working so far, so far. So far it's gotten great engagement. I've been very impressed, so we'll see if it keeps going.
Speaker 3:If you guys want to look for more insights, look at it's currently on what Films by Calliope yeah, that's my Instagram Films by Calliope, and then I have started a TikTok. Now you know all that stuff Do you feel happy with the type of leader that you are now, or are you still looking for improvement?
Speaker 1:That's tough. I mean, I think the quick, short answer, my immediate answer was no, no, of course not. I mean I think the gift and the curse with this industry is you're never good enough.
Speaker 3:You're never there.
Speaker 1:I've described it this way. I've had a couple of interns over the years. Okay, I think we've had like 12 in the last four years. What happens in this industry? Maybe this happens. I'm sure this happens elsewhere too, but what happens is you get better. Okay, so you're doing this right. Yes. So your status quo what you deem is passable also does this, so it creates this paradox that you're not getting any better, because what you deem is passable and good is also rising at the same level that you're getting better at.
Speaker 1:So you're like this sucks, I suck at this all the time. That's the creative thing. And then you go, no, no, we'll go pull up a video from five years ago and it's like, oh okay, well, I have gotten better since then. Right, but what happens is, yeah, you trick yourself into thinking you haven't gotten any better. So no, I think I am very I'm happy with who I am as a person and I'm much happier than I was as a leader a few years ago.
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm a much better leader than I was and that makes me happy, but I do feel like I have lots of room to grow and find ways to be better at this and a more efficient leader, a more patient leader. That's a hard place to be. It's really easy to get frustrated on set um.
Speaker 1:So that's a hard place to be um being it's really easy to get frustrated on set. Um, you're combining, you know, manual labor with intense, you know thoughts and creativity. Of course you're going to get frustrated. You're like maxing out your potential with your body, so like and for me, I'm very everything we do is very physical, like I do a lot of ronin 2 operation. It's part of why I'm in the gym five days a week, because five days I'm carrying heavy cameras.
Speaker 3:Well yeah, cameras are heavy well, actually so, with the leadership that you mentioned. Now that, are you familiar with the book uh by john maxwell? Uh, 21, uh lot, if you, if you, irrefutable loss of leadership. It is a great book. The first law it actually sounds similar to what you said, where the first law is the law of the lid. It's basically where you're capping at. If you believe that's where you're at, that's going to stop. So, with that paradox, I just found that interesting because that's the first time I've heard that concept from that's outside of a book. So thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker 1:I haven't read the book, so it is a good book. Then I got you so much for sharing that I haven't read the book, so it is a good book.
Speaker 3:Then I gotta read the book, whoa? Well then, okay, we're now. We're gonna dive into, and as a leader. Now, how did you lead your life, both as a creative person and as a business person, into the formation of your company, calliope films? And also what's the story behind that name. Okay, I'll start with that yes that's the easier answer um, oh, easier, it's okay.
Speaker 1:Fine, I'm gonna find a harder answer, oh no I think uh, yeah so calliope films, and you know this. It sounds pretentious to me now. Uh, because every 19 year old is pretentious, unfortunately, and I was a 19 year old and pretentious. Um so, when I was 19 years old, uh, uh, every 19 year old filmmaker is pretentious. Um so, when I was 19 years old, uh, every 19 year old filmmaker is pretentious I've not met a humble 19 year old filmmaker.
Speaker 1:It doesn't exist. If you're out there, find me. Um, yeah, for whatever reason, I was the same way. I was a little punk. I was so full of myself, ego, ego, bigger than this room, uh, and I just thought I was the next whatever. Right.
Speaker 1:Anyway. But Calliope Films is Greek mythology. She's the muse of epic poetry in Greek mythology and it translates to beautiful voice. So in the most pretentious answer ever, we are the beautiful voice of epic poetry was where I landed on. I like the shape of the word. I love Greek mythology itself. That being said, I've not studied it deeply or anything, but I've always loved it because the idea of assigning purpose or meaning to something before you understand it is very interesting to me.
Speaker 1:So they didn't know what thunder was. They just said, oh, it's a god in the sky throwing stuff. Obviously they didn't know. So they gave it a meaning, they gave it a purpose, they defined it. And that's what we do as filmmakers we like, we decide purpose, we give this thing purpose. You know that's, you know it can be anything. You know you watch short films about these strangest stuff. But they decided to give that story purpose and that's what we do. Um, yeah, so I like that's it, I like that, that. And then the company started like who I am? The first question, like the start of the company, or like what was that question?
Speaker 3:it was basically how did with the leadership style now then? You mentioned about the nine. How did you lead, how did you uphold to yourself as a leader during the earlier years of your company to where it is now?
Speaker 1:I think the idea of who I am as a leader actually started, you know, even as far back as like high school. High school was incredibly formative for me. I think it is for a lot of people. But I think people have like some weird shame behind that or like something like that.
Speaker 1:But no, high school was very, very important to me. It did a lot of things for me. I was in, I was in drumline and uh, that was a huge, so important to me. It was, uh, such a huge. We took it very seriously. You know, we went to drumline world championships whoa all this stuff and, uh, dayton ohio, it's like a, it's like a whole hidden world, it's like quidditch and harry potter like you go there like a nick hidden world.
Speaker 3:It's like Quidditch and Harry Potter. Is it like Nick Cannon, the?
Speaker 1:drumline movie. Yes, that kind of thing yeah. We were much better than them, though. Yeah, I remember watching the movie and being like oh, these guys suck. So we learned a lot of discipline in that room, and also it is very much a film set. I mean the collaborative nature of drumline. I mean literally the goal of being in a drumline is to sound like one drum, so I played the tenors, the five drums, in front of you. Right.
Speaker 1:And we got to sound like one drum, so you have to play exactly in time with each other while marching and moving. And then there's also a performance aspect of this. Wgi is the name of it. Wgi, the sport of the arts, is what they call it. So like there's a, there's a show, it's like almost like, a little like a theater element to it.
Speaker 1:So you're performing, you're playing, trying to play perfectly, and you're marching around this mat. You know we would work on a seven minute show for six months and then go perform. You know, perform the seven minutes and hopefully yeah get to the world championships. We got fifth in the world. Um, congratulations, thank you. And in high school, but it was, it was very formative for us because it was really, it was really like I look back, like that was really freaking hard, like what we were doing.
Speaker 1:It was so hard for like a 17 year old to be doing, I mean like gosh, I mean like that, uh, but that you know learning how to, and I was drum captain me and my buddy, mike mcdonald, were drum captains um, so we had to leave this drum line and inspire this drum line. You know, how do you get, how do you get high schoolers to practice at home? Um, how do you get folks to show up?
Speaker 1:you know, yeah you know, and during indoor season we think it was like practices were like four days a week, from 6 to 9 pm.
Speaker 1:Wow so like for a high schooler, that's like everything. So we were just, I mean, it was so busy and then we also, you know, played for every single football game and all that stuff. We were busy. But I think Drumline was pretty formative in my leadership style. It was just so challenging and I think that unfortunately also kind of made me like a weird perfectionist in different ways too, not in every way, I know I'm a perfectionist in every way, but in some ways I get real weird. And that's because of Drumline, I think, in those formative years.
Speaker 3:Is that Whiplash, are you like?
Speaker 1:Whiplash, Whiplash is closer. I mean, that's a very dramaticized version obviously, but that is definitely closer. I had my freshman year at Drumline. I had my teacher, not a good leader.
Speaker 1:Not a good leader at the time he left after my freshman year. Okay, sorry if you're listening to this. You were not a good leader, but no, I was on bass, bass three, which in the drum line world, that's like you're kind of one of the better bass players, but you're not the best. You're in the top three yeah. And he chanted because I couldn't play this part, and he chanted in front of the whole drum line. Chris is going to lose his part. What, Chris? Is going to lose his part.
Speaker 1:And then, of course, I got upset and started to cry and then couldn't play it freshman in high school and you know what? I lost the part right after that. You took it away in front of the whole drum line.
Speaker 3:That is not a good leader. That is not Teachers are supposed to inspire?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, for sure, and it was a very challenging For a freshman. It was very challenging. I had to start the show. Right.
Speaker 1:And dialing in tempo for a freshman is very difficult. I just couldn't do it and it was a syncopated rhythm which is difficult. Couldn't do it, so he took it apart Taunted me, and then took it apart, took it away. So I don't know what the heck that was about, but that was kind of like whiplash. Wow, that intenseness was. It felt like whiplash and that that feeling he made me feel was like.
Speaker 3:you know what I saw, should not have happened. Oh, but I definitely like. I guess that's why you said it's a formative part of your years and I, it's my origin story.
Speaker 1:You know your villain origin story.
Speaker 3:I know pun intended, but to the beat of your own drum there it is To the beat of your own, it's true.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Now that you're marching into your film production company to the rise against all these bad leaders, and also with your Gwen Stacy by your side Sierra Hubs, that's right. Founders, you know when you're the one that runs the whole company, it's your baby. You have this side of your baby, you have this, you have this um side of you where you have a hard time, uh, delegating or giving up that part of the company. So, since you are the founder, and now that you have crs the co-founder in that dynamic, what were some of the things that you had to accept for yourself when it comes to finding the right co-founder to handle a part of something that you've to accept for yourself? When it comes to finding the right co-founder to handle a part of something that you've built with blood and sweat and tears? What does the co-founder look like for you?
Speaker 1:on the base level is someone I want to spend my time with right you know it's someone that I, that I like to be around.
Speaker 1:That's so important, um, but it's also someone who who treats it like it's their own. You know, you can't, I didn't want an employee. You know someone who clocks in, clocks out and then you know whatever, like it doesn't matter, as long as a paycheck shows up, they don't care. This industry is more than that. Unfortunately, it drives folks crazy as well. Well, it's you know. It's. You know, even when I'm, you know, I'll be sitting at home on the couch and working on something on my phone. You know, working on a social media video script or whatever. Yeah, not that I expect her to be working 24-7 like me, but I just she treats it like her own, like it's her own, she cares, she understands, it's our well-being. So that's what I wanted Someone who can treat it like it's their own and not just like a you know a clock you're punching and she does that very well we always want another version of ourselves, which is true, of course.
Speaker 3:That is so damn painful. And then it's like you put this on a realistic expectation on somebody, and that's also the hardest thing. When you put such a high expectation of yourself with the company that you own, you put that on somebody else and sometimes, when they can't rise up to that uh occasion, uh to meet your expectation, it just makes it makes it all that harder to really believe that. It makes you go back to this idea you know what? I don't need them, I'll just it. They'll never understand. So, with Sierra and how you've been able to work together with this company, what is one, one thing that you would want people to always keep in mind?
Speaker 3:one especially, especially young people out there, because they get so naive and they're so passionate about something that they often forget that it's also important to whoever it is that you partner up with. They are literally someone that you sign up for a lifelong career. So what is something you would want to say Out of everything you've experienced? What is one thing you want to say to that younger audience?
Speaker 1:I would say remember, it's all about people, People first and also, especially when you're getting started. And still to this day, I struggle with this. Most likely you're probably not. And still to this day, I struggle with this Most likely you're probably not being clear with your instructions. Really. Uh, most likely. I mean, the hardest thing to do in this industry is communicate your vision. Okay.
Speaker 1:So what happens early on, what happened early on with me and it still happens when I'm, you know, on my one of my little tantrums, um is you're not being clear with your crew or with your partner on what you want, and then you get frustrated because they're not doing it.
Speaker 1:But you're not telling them what to do properly. You're not telling them your vision or not explaining what you're doing. So then you get frustrated because it's not happening how you want. But most likely, especially early in your career, you're not good at taking what's in here and communicating it to somebody else. You know, telling them exactly how to move the light or exactly where to go, or exactly how you want this line delivered or where you want the blocking. Either you don't know which is also pretty common and when you're getting started, also fine. Just say you don't know. Admit it, that's okay or you don't know how to communicate the vision. Most likely it's that it's really really hard to communicate your vision. That's something I still struggle with to this day. How do you communicate what's in your mind to the people around you? So that's the thing. Remember that you're talking to people who have feelings and care, and most likely they're not there to sabotage you. They're there because they care too.
Speaker 1:So, like every last time we talk about in Kitty Get a Job. All the time it's like, hey look, everyone is here because they want the best product. They're sharing their opinion because they think their opinion is a good opinion to share.
Speaker 3:It's time.
Speaker 1:They deserve to share that opinion, so keep that in mind. If they are there to sabotage the set, well then get them off, but most likely they are not. If they choose to work with you and then also be mindful that they can't read your mind. You have to learn how to be clear with your direction, with what you want.
Speaker 3:That's huge. Most people have their own way of communicating. What is the one that you've learned to uh, realize that the best way to communicate is through what? Through taking the time to talk one-on-one, especially with the crew, in terms of talk about your ideas. I said one-on-one. Or you need some time for yourself and then you present it to everyone, or do you need someone with you throughout the process to know that, if you mess up, at least they know that your vision, they understand everything. So what is the yeah?
Speaker 1:On set. It's so complicated because you kind of have to do all of those things, so I always set the stage with a pre-production meeting. That's so important to me. I greet everyone, welcome. Thank them for being there. I go through the whole day. Yes.
Speaker 1:I tell them what we're going to do. I try to tell them why we're doing it, at least at a base level. Get everyone on the same page Again, down to the PA. Nobody should be in the dark about what's happening. Everyone's informed of what we're doing and then you know. Typically I do go by department and check on everyone and talk. It's usually not typically one-on-one unless I'm talking. If I'm talking to my gaffer, I do want that to be one-on-one. Yes.
Speaker 1:But that's kind of where Sierra comes in. She's a wonderful AD and producer and sometimes when I'm not being clear which happens whenever you're that guy, whenever you're in charge or that gal sometimes you're thinking about 10 different things and you're not being clear, or you're three steps ahead and you haven't told them steps one and two. I constantly work on that, but having Sierra help translate my insanity sometimes and help me.
Speaker 2:Like all right, chris, nobody knows what you're talking about because you haven't told them anything Like you're right.
Speaker 1:Thank you. So having her by my side definitely helps communicate what I'm thinking and feeling better to those around me, which is great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if we look back, if we take a step back and look at the whole industry as a whole, what you can see is mostly it's a lot of like like men. And then how did you help her navigate through the industry where it's just so much male energy and sometimes it clashes, especially when they see the opposite sex to be on the center, not going to take them seriously. It's just unfair, it's just unfair dynamic and it should not be that way. It should be viewed in a be viewed through the lens of okay, can you do the job? That's great. Gender should not matter, but how would Sierra? How did you navigate her through the difficulties that can be found everywhere in this industry?
Speaker 1:Totally, yeah, I mean it's still bad, it's still not great for women in the industry, unfortunately, especially in leadership positions, especially around here.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:But no, I mean I guess I do my best to. I mean, she's a position of power on set and I don't think on our sets I don't feel like it's ever a question. Okay. Just because of the way you know, we don't even. It's not a thing. It's like, hey, she's the one in charge, so you either do what she says or you probably won't be working with us kind of thing, and I hate to be that way, but that's just how this goes.
Speaker 1:I mean if you have a problem with a woman telling you what to do on set, then that's not a good set for you, cause she's going to tell you what to do and she's right almost every time. But no, I mean, I think I do my best. You know, I try to elevate her in every way that I can. I know she feels that tension from you know, from men on set. So I um, I have a lot of pep talks, you know where they're. Like you know, getting her ready and like, hey, this guy's probably gonna do this, this and this because I know them and whatever.
Speaker 1:So it's like you gotta be ready for that and I'm sorry that you have to deal with that. But just giving you the heads up, um, but no, I mean I try my best to put her on a pedestal. Um, you know, just as men are put on pedestals in the industry, you know we've got this hotshot director coming in or whatever.
Speaker 1:Um, and now when she's, she's very you know, she is, you know, the best producer I work with Um. She knows her, she knows her shit and she does it. She does it well, um, and you know, and she's a logistics queen Like she gets the job done.
Speaker 1:Um so at the end of the day, it's like you can't argue with results, so it doesn't matter which between your legs. If she gets the job done, then she gets the job done. So I try to like obviously I'm not hiring her because she's a woman or because she's my spouse. I'm hiring her because I think she's the best at the job and I don't think there's any doubt in that. When you work, with us.
Speaker 1:She is not like you know. Oh, it's just Chris's girlfriend, whatever, like. No, she is very much in charge. She tells me what to do a lot of times, so I think it's the way we hold ourselves on set. So I think it's the way we hold ourselves on set. There's no real question on her legitimacy or her position on set as a woman. I think it's just taking away that stigma and taking away that it's even a thing we're not even going to focus on that. Of course she's qualified. What are you talking about? That's why she's here.
Speaker 3:Sierra, we have never met a person, but, based on what he just said, you are more than qualified. That's right. You're doing fantastic. Yeah, I'm really glad you spoke on that issue, because that's one of the topics that is not talked about. It has to be fixed Absolutely. We're going to 2025,. Guys, we need to be better. The world is going to end soon. We can do better, guys. Yes, be better by helping other people. Now going better, by helping other people now going through the stages of. You know, we turned this. Initially, the company started out as something that we love, and now we're going through the stages of oh gosh, I can make money off of this. I got this for 200. Wow, how did you get to do that phase? And now, how did you build your salesman, sales, salesman mindset? Because a lot of the times, as creatives I'm sorry to say guys, but we're so shit at the business side we really are, but with you, how did you craft that salesman mindset of approaching clients and getting projects to get you to be paid for what?
Speaker 1:you're worth Very just a long patient process. But I do have a degree in marketing Okay. And I have a degree in film and I have a minor in theater. Okay, so those things help. I say they help. They didn't really help, but they did teach me discipline. Okay. I can't. I'm not an advocate for a college in this industry, even though I have two bachelor's degrees. Don't go to college If you're trying to get into film. Save yourself some time.
Speaker 3:Agree.
Speaker 1:Just go get on set. Don't go to college, don't Save the money, just go get on set.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:But no, actually I got a sales job. My marketing professor said you want to be good in business, get a sales job. So I did. I didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker 2:I picked the one of the hardest ones, I just picked whatever I could find.
Speaker 1:You go, I went on careerbuildercom and picked a job and it was a credit card processing. Oh God, that is a hard job. It was so hard, so very hard. I mean you're like the most hated guy in the room at all times, like right up, right up there with like insurance salesmen like you. They don't want to talk to you ever and I cold called. I would go to businesses and cold call businesses, just walk in the door and say hello and I would give them my little spiel that I had practiced and rehearsed. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Uh and ready to go. Um, and it was so hard. I mean, it was literally I went a year without making a sale, yeah, but I didn't give up, I kept going because I wanted to beat this, Finally figured out my angle and started making sales. And the beauty for me was it created residual income. So every time I signed up a client I would get, like you know, .02 cents on every swipe, they did so.
Speaker 1:if a business did 100 grand a month in credit card sales, I was making a pretty good penny. And then I eventually had 60 clients that I'd worked at. So I worked up to 60 clients that I had sold to. So all 60 clients were generating residual income for me. That is so wow.
Speaker 1:And then I was also working at the restaurant. I was a busboy at Grand. Marlin, which I definitely recommend working in the restaurant industry. If you get it out of the way when you're young, I think everyone should. So they learn how to respect those folks in the restaurant and just how to not be jerks and also tip them fairly.
Speaker 3:The restaurants don't do it all the time.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yes, Nah yeah, so I was a busboy at the same time, and then eventually I got to the point where my residuals paid me enough. I didn't have to work at the restaurant.
Speaker 3:It was that much.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it got it to the point and I was making. Like you know, between it fluctuated a lot because it depended on what the businesses did, so I'm making anywhere from like $2,500 to $4,000 a month. Before I got out of bed, I need to start doing this. Hey look, I'll start again. Man, I'll start again. I feel like I could do the heck out of it now. So I got to the point where I didn't have to work at the restaurant anymore and that allowed me to the point where I didn't have to um work at the restaurant anymore and that allowed me.
Speaker 1:The plan was the plan that worked was to build up enough residuals to where I could do that and do filmmaking and it worked, I got this monthly income that I had every month before I even, you know, got out of bed which allowed me to then focus on video production.
Speaker 1:Then I bought my first camera on a credit card, the Canon 5D Mark III. Oh wow, they wanted the classics, yeah. And then I got started. So that was kind of the plan and that's how it worked. But to answer your question, when it comes to sales, if I can sell credit card processing, I can sell anything. So I can sell a video now.
Speaker 3:That's the thing. What about the emotion side of it, though?
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm a very emotional boy. If that's not very clear, I'm an extremely emotional boy, so that's like it's easy for me to get. Often. You know, I get very emotionally wrapped up in everything. I'm doing. So yeah, that part, you know the storytelling part I've been working on since I was four, Okay, so yeah, that part, the storytelling part I've been working on since I was four.
Speaker 1:I literally I found my first you know, short film is a stretch, but I filmed a little video when I was four years old with my brothers and I got, you know, our towels, clothes pinned around our necks and superheroes or whatever. So I've been doing this for a long time and I've always you know, always, you know gravitated to storytelling and comedy sketches and that kind of thing. So the emotional part is not too difficult for me. I feel like I got, for better or worse, I got to explore lots of pretty intense emotions pretty early on. So I got to exercise those emotions really quickly, which I think has made me more vulnerable and able to kind of tap into those emotions when I need to.
Speaker 3:But when it comes to sales, though, sometimes, when we often find ourselves not getting the deal that we want, we let our emotions—well, we had two options we remain calm, or we let our emotions get the best of us, and sometimes, when that happens, we lose the sale. So, as it got bigger with Calliopeiope films, how did you maintain your composure when you started getting higher jobs? Um, that had a higher. That had a hell of a budget that you never thought you would get I treated.
Speaker 1:I treated like um kind of like acting auditions oh, okay, you know you, uh, I'm an acting agent. I do some acting as well. Um is this?
Speaker 3:because of the kitty.
Speaker 1:Uh, get a job, yeah, well, I'm in the cast of kitty get a job so I was like I need to like I need to keep exercising my acting job. Okay, I was in the sketch last night um make sure you follow kitty.
Speaker 3:Get a job on instagram. Guys, check us out.
Speaker 1:We're funny sometimes sometimes we're funny, um, but um, yeah, I mean. So it's kind of like that like you, you send in the proposal and then just like, forget about it. You know, I say I follow up, you know three days later, but like, okay, leave it alone. Like don't, don't count on it. That's the biggest thing is like don't count on a sale, don't you know whatever they say. Don't don't count your chickens before they hatch, or whatever. Very true. Like don't don't sit there and be like oh, that was in the bag. I still catch myself doing that. Okay.
Speaker 1:Don't. But also, you know I got with credit card processing. I got so used to rejection. I mean 90% or more. 95% was no's in credit card processing, that was like the numbers. 95% was no's in credit card processing, that was like the numbers you know.
Speaker 1:so for every, you know quite literally, for like you know, for every you know 100 cold calls I made, I was basically going to make two or three sales. Jeez, you know, those were the numbers that they gave us. That was like they said. That was if you do that, you're doing good. Really, yeah, that's the numbers. Sales is a game of numbers. It's also a thing to keep in mind. It's a game of numbers, so if you can and seek out those clients, you should be sending a few proposals a month out at least if not more.
Speaker 1:You can be doing a proposal tool a week. You should be finding, should be finding enough to do that. I say should. We've had dry months where we don't get a proposal for a whole month or two, and that sucks, you know, and that's terrible but happens. But yeah, just forget about it, Like send it out and forget about it, Don't count. Don't count on anything until the paper is signed, until the contract is signed, really until the check is in your hand, don't count on anything. I've had contracts where everything was signed and I thought it was good to go, and then they back out and then you know what am I going to do Sue this person because they signed a contract? Probably not because it's not worth it at that point. And then I'm going to be the production company that sues folks whenever they don't do what I want. And I don't want that image.
Speaker 1:I don't want to be in the news or in any circle of like oh yeah, he sued us whenever we didn't want to do the video because, they won't tell you what happened. They'll be like whatever. I was promised a video. I was promised a TV show. We did a pilot for a TV show and if it got picked up, they said they were going to hire us. Okay. Well, we did this pilot for a heavy, heavy discount, and then the show got picked up and then they hired another crew to do it.
Speaker 3:But not you.
Speaker 1:Correct All because I didn't have it in writing. I had a verbal. This guy was my friend.
Speaker 2:I thought no, this guy was my friend, so I had a verbal contract with him.
Speaker 3:No, Nothing written. Sorry to have this bro.
Speaker 1:I have so many stories like that. Get your contract signed. The show is Surviving Martellis. Don't watch it.
Speaker 3:Oh, I was going to say the original creator gave him credit, don't watch it. That, oh, I was gonna say the original creator, yeah, give him credit, don't watch it.
Speaker 1:Uh those folks screwed us over, um, and that was the only time I was like I talked to a lawyer yeah, I was like you know, because it was gonna cost me about a hundred thousand dollars. Um oh, my gosh, that's what they were gonna pay us um, so it was the only time I was like maybe I should get a lawyer. But it was like. You know, I had it in an email. You know I probably could have pursued that, but it wasn't worth it. Not worth it to us.
Speaker 1:I don't want to get my hands dirty like that, and those are folks we obviously don't want to work with Okay. So it's also understanding that, like that's not folks you want to surround yourself with, that's not people that are that are that are here to see you succeed or are going to treat you right. Like I'm good, you guys can go make your show how you want. I don't want to be involved in someone who doesn't respect us like that.
Speaker 3:Um, chris, we now have the utmost respect. That is that is. That is no, actually we we had respect, it's just this. This respect just increased, like what you said earlier, that actually I'm so sorry that happened, but I'm sure it taught you so many lessons that you would have now learn how to take with you going? Forward but, with that being said, as a person would go into a lot of apparently hardships. Jesus christ, I'm so sorry that's just industry and I yeah, one more thing I gotta say.
Speaker 1:Make good contracts. Make them signed contracts. It doesn't matter if they're your friends, it doesn't matter if it's like oh it's my buddy, we're good. Don't Get a good contract.
Speaker 1:If you need help with that, reach out to me, I'll help you out. Or getting a lawyer to make a contract. There are so many Rocket Lawyer online. We use a program called PandaDoc, which is great. It has contracts built in. Read that contract, make sure it has you protected. Unfortunately, and especially around here and in this industry, no one really knows how this industry works around here.
Speaker 1:You have to really protect yourself and protect. Not only it wasn't even about me. I was more upset about the crew that I had promised this work to Now doesn't have this work because of my negligence and their carelessness. So make good contracts, protect you and protect your crew.
Speaker 3:Guys, you just got a great valuable insight. Make sure you like this video, subscribe and also follow his account. I promise you you're going to get a lot of foundation knowledge. The other thing I wanted to ask is this so, now that you've gone through that, I'm sure if I've described this, you're going to say yes, that's the flashbacks now.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, here we are 19 year old uh chris oh yeah, a little little punk.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna make one, I'm gonna make movies yes, like michael bay movies, you I'm assuming you took the typical traditional path of okay, weddings, we all know weddings are brain dead. If you like pet weddings, good for y'all. But I'm assuming the path that you took was weddings and then you just were like you know, I'm done with that. This is just. There's no creativity into that. And then now you decide you know what, screw all of this, I'm gonna make my company blah, blah, blah. How did? And then, now that you mentioned that you never want to surround yourself with the type of people the clients that didn't don't truly respect what you do for them With this company, how did you face out those that don't really value for what you're asking for with the work that you're providing for them?
Speaker 3:How did you face them out and then start bringing in higher value clients that truly do value everything that you do?
Speaker 1:The way you find clients that you need to work with. Unfortunately, the answer is sometimes you got to work with clients you don't want to work with because work gets slow and you need the money. And that's okay, no shame in that. But no, stay true to your rates as much as you can and fight for those rates. It's not even just about you, it's about the industry as a whole. So when you compromise on rates, the whole industry suffers because now they know they can come to you and get these rates that are way cheaper than the standard rates, something we do even in Pensacola we did a few years back. I talk about our buddies over at Lindsay Film. Our rates don't differ very much. They're my friends, they're our collaborators and they're my competitors, but our rates don't differ too much from each other because that's not what it's about. We don't want it to be a game of numbers.
Speaker 1:We went with you because you were cheaper. That's not typically what we want. So, yeah, staying true to the rates and not being afraid to say no when it's not going to suit your needs. You look at your time, you know. For us it's easy now because we have overhead, so it's really easy to look at our time and be like, well, that is not a good use of our time. You know I have to hit a certain number, to even hit zero every month. Right.
Speaker 1:You know. So it's like, hey, I can't. I just can't come out there for $500. That's not going to work. I literally will lose money. Like the amount of money I'm paying myself every day, including what I pay my company every day to exist, is greater than what you're paying me. So that's like a really easy way to look at it. But no, staying true to your rates, don't be afraid to say no and don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. Eventually it works. You know you will lose clients for sure that don't want to pay your higher rates. You know you lose them, but most of the time those are clients you probably want to lose anyway, just because it's going to be.
Speaker 3:it's always the clients that you know that whittle you down on the rate and then you get the edit and they are a nightmare to work with and they're asking for a thousand changes and all the stuff and the project never ends and this is very yeah, but can you say how happy are you when, where you are now, versus the younger you, to be able to see that you will now have a job that you literally love and have to have this creativity to play with and and also expanding that into, can you get a job? How do you? Feel, what is the? One thing you could say to your younger self where you are now.
Speaker 1:I think younger me would be pretty hyped with me right now.
Speaker 1:I feel, like you know, I still have lots to work on. You know, I got all the things I got to work on to be the person I want to be. Yeah, but I think younger me would be pretty hyped. I didn't even know this would be an option until like high school, when I saw that this could even be a career. I'm just making silly videos of my friends and you know, I think you know, like anyone you know, back in you know, 2007,. You know, when I was in high school was like you know, I'm just going to get famous on YouTube, easy, right, someone's going to discover me there, but no, of course not. So, no, I think you're going to be pretty hyped that we get to point cameras for a living.
Speaker 1:I feel very, very lucky. When it's really hard, it gets really hard. Yeah, it's tough, like, even like last night. You know it was a shoot we did, it was a passion project shoot, shoot, yes, and it, you know, beat me down, um, but I, I love, it's such a silly thing. I feel so lucky that I get to call this my life, um, even when it's so tough, like man, I'm so glad I get to do this.
Speaker 3:What a cool thing one thing I love that you send me a text was um keep producing even when there are no clients uh by the way, guys contest we were in uh in contact okay, prior this. But I love what you said, because when I got that text I kid you not I was in that room editing the project.
Speaker 3:And when I saw the text prior to that, I was like, oh man, I really want to get this project that I really want to get paid for. What am I going to do around here? Then, when you sent me the text I kid you not when you said keep producing. It almost is like it's an affirmation of everything that you've worked for is always going to lead to somewhere. Yes, can you please expand that to these?
Speaker 1:people. Oh, it's so important, I think, especially around here. I don't know anybody that has a fully booked calendar. Down here in the South it doesn't exist. As far as I know, I have had spurts, for instance this year. It was a running joke because I don't know. It was a crazy time. It was from April 15th to June 21st. I did not really have a day off Wow, it was nuts, but I'm so thankful it was after. Have a day off Wow, it was nuts, but I'm so thankful it was after such a dry spell. 2023 was so slow. So after such a dry spell of work, I said yes to so many things and they were all cool. They were all fun too. I got to film in the Red Sea in Saudi Arabia, got to see my family over there All kinds of cool stuff Shot a documentary in Miami and shot a short film, smoke Breaks. I mean, I was yeah For Will out there, will Matlock. We shot a short film, smoke Breaks.
Speaker 1:I was literally working on the shot list on the plane to Saudi Arabia and back. I finished it on the plane. It was crazy Wait, how many hours was this flight? The full travel time was like the flight time was like 26 hours, I think, and you finished it in that time frame. Well, I did work on some in the lounge.
Speaker 3:I worked on some in my hotel room. I worked on some before I left.
Speaker 1:I worked on it quite a lot, but when I sit down and do a shot list, like I already have, kind of all the shots in my head of where I want to go. Um, but it was funny. One of the most impactful shots I uh came to me while I was on the plane. Okay, I gotta write that down immediately. So I pulled up the struggle to get the wi-fi so I could put it in my google doc and wrote it down. But, yes, always be producing Back to that Sorry.
Speaker 3:Sorry, we didn't mean to take a detour. That's my bad.
Speaker 1:So it's one of the rules I set early in my career when I quickly discovered that I was not going to be booked all the time. You need to always be producing something if you're going to be in this field especially down here. It's the trade-off right, so it's a little easier to live down here for the most part kind of cheaper. As.
Speaker 1:I'm looking at the numbers. It's not much cheaper than New York anymore, sadly, but it's kind of cheaper to be here. It's easier to be here, so hopefully your rent is not too expensive, that kind of thing. So you can't afford to sit there and wait for the next project. You know, sometimes it can be months before you book another paid gig. Hopefully it's not, but it happens. Or it can be a couple, you know, six weeks. Even in that amount of time you can get a little rusty If you're not constantly, you know, sharpening your tools. It's like that's why I go to the gym every day. It's like I'm trying to get stronger, trying to get better.
Speaker 1:You have to treat filmmaking the same way. You got to practice. You got to do it over and over and over. Get on as many sets as you can and if you don't have any work to do or like any paid work to do, go make something you know. Even for us that was Kitty Get a Job. I started it over 10 years ago we night for 10 years and, honestly, the stuff that I learned in Kitty Get a Job made me a way way better filmmaker.
Speaker 1:Like the stuff we do in that room is so much harder than most of my client work. We try some really complicated. Even last night we took this sketch that was two people talking in a room and made it so difficult, like just trying all these different things. It's not like we sought out to make it difficult. We were trying to challenge ourselves and find new ways to do stuff. You know we used we bought a split diopter on set which is super fun to use.
Speaker 1:So you know stuff like that that takes a little time to mess with and tweak. We don't have to do that stuff, but we want to push it. Now I feel pretty. I feel much more confident working with a split diopter, which is great. That's where you have two people in focus at once.
Speaker 3:For those who don't know, so you can put you know, have one close and then have one far away. But the focus, the depth of the field is not blurring the other person. It's like they're all sharp within the frame Exactly.
Speaker 1:It's a very cool effect. Mike flanagan does it the best. Um haunting a villahouse and midnight mass, um and haunting a blind man are very good shows.
Speaker 3:Um so it sounds like a lot of it was deliberate practice your your film is a muscle that should never be at at your feet. If that's the right, yeah, past tense. If that were yeah um, there's actually one thing I want to hit me one okay when I when I did this career, I was so terrified of what my parents were going to say okay yeah, you know they're all doctors of like uh, how do you value someone who's everybody's doctor?
Speaker 3:they save lives and and then it's a it's something that I've gone through, but one of the things I've always um had to struggle with was will they accept me for who I wanted for?
Speaker 3:who I am and what I want to do, and I'm so lucky that they've done. They've gotten to a point where they support me, Of course, Unfortunately not a lot of kids, especially when they're in this time and age, it's a lot harder to do that. Especially we have to pay everything. But for you, Chris, what was your family's perspective on the career choice that you've made and how did you navigate through that? You know, my mom was always very, very supportive of it.
Speaker 1:I think it was more. She was concerned. You know, I think, like anyone, to get into something like this that is a bit more risky. Yeah. But I think and I hope you know, she saw that I was going about it in a pragmatic way in a way that made sense A lot of folks.
Speaker 1:I think the issue lies. You know, if you want to do this and you want to do it for real, you have to treat it like it's real. You have to treat it like a job, so like if you're saying I want to be a filmmaker which I hear that all the time, People tell me that all the time it's okay, so what are you doing to do that? The answer is typically oh, you know, I got a script I've been working on for four years and you know, I shot something on my iPhone six years ago.
Speaker 3:I would say no.
Speaker 1:What are you doing right now to do that? The answer is typically nothing. So like if you are in that position and you want someone to take you seriously, you have to be disciplined, like show up and do the work. You know. Whatever that is, youtube is a fantastic resource. Good on YouTube Watch every lighting tutorial there. I, literally when I'm cooking dinner at the house, I am watching a tutorial of some kind, really Always I have a master class subscription.
Speaker 1:I watch all the master classes, so I'm usually cooking, I'm watching that. I watch lighting the masterclasses, so I'm usually. When I'm cooking, I'm watching that. I watch lighting breakdowns constantly, even on stuff that I've done before. It doesn't matter, I'll still watch a three-point lighting setup, just to see if they do it a little differently than I do. There's an awesome podcast called the Wandering DP and he's also on. Oh, you know him, that guy.
Speaker 3:He's the man the youtube. Yes, yeah, great, check him out.
Speaker 1:I, I watch everything. I mean, I, I watch. I'm constantly like trying to sharpen my tools, even though I do this, you know, for a living. I'm like, yeah, I still have so much to learn. So, like he, I might watch one video. I've done all that before but it was cool. Um, but it doesn't matter. Like I'm still watching a professional talk about it, and there's always, almost every time, there's a nugget and it's like, oh, that is a great point, I'm going to try that, that kind of thing. Or like looking at new gear or whatever. So like, yeah, if you're trying to be, you know, a writer per se, for film.
Speaker 1:what are for film? What are you writing? Right now Show me. That's the thing. So just wake up and write every day. Wake up and work on something related to your career every day. If you're trying to build clients, wake up, email people every day. There are so many softwares you can do, reach out to people. That's the thing. You can't say that I want to be a filmmaker, that I want to get into this industry, and then just poof, it happens if you're not putting in the work you got to put in the work, put in the time, make yourself a plan, talk to people who have done it.
Speaker 1:I, like I said, I'll talk to anyone and give them my two cents on. You know what I think should be done. I let people on my sets all the time. If you haven't been on a set before, we have to grab coffee first, so I can vet you and make sure you're not going to come on my set and sabotage yeah, I mentioned that earlier.
Speaker 1:We don't take saboteurs, we don't no, sorry, and I also have to keep people on my set safe. So, like you know, I get, I let people on my sets we talk. Um, I want to help you get where you want to be. That's a big thing, um, but yeah, good heart, please don't lose that, okay.
Speaker 3:I'm trying. Please don't. I'm very tired be Kevin Feige.
Speaker 1:I know be Kevin Feige. I'll always keep fighting the good fight it's part of who I am fight the good fight. So it's like yeah, if you wanna. It's like someone who's training to run a marathon you know, and then you're just like, so, like, are you running every day? It's like no, I'm just going to you have to keep training.
Speaker 1:Right. So it's like yeah, everyone else has a nine to five, this has to be your nine to five, and I treat it that way. I wake up and I work every day, even if I have nothing to do, like tomorrow, for instance. I have a weirdly free day, so I'm going to work on social media content. I'm going to write some scripts for my next videos. I'm working on a script, actually. Oh.
Speaker 1:I'm going to work on, try to work on that. Yes, I'm going to find some, you know. Again, it's all about feeding the marketing funnel.
Speaker 1:Okay, one of the things we're working on is posting more frames of my work. I'm terrible at that, so I'm going to sift through some frames of mine and post them. Um, I just I think posting frames is pointless, but I'm going to do it because apparently the algorithm might like it. Um, who am I posting them for? Am I posting them for my peers? Am I posting my clients? Do my clients care about?
Speaker 1:seeing frames I don't know, I'm not sure, uh, but I'm going to try post more frames but I think, well, I think we can acknowledge the fact that you're even doing that.
Speaker 3:It's still some form of sharing knowledge, right? So you're contributing to the overall fight of making sure that the little guys get a chance to get to where they see where you're at. They get to have the chance to get to where they want to be in your level. Now guys.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry to do this to you. I hate it every single time. I'm really sorry, but I have to cut this interview soon. That's okay. The time is not unlimited. I'm sorry and unfortunately Chris has a busy working life and we have to let him go soon. But we will bring him on for the next episode, Will you agree to that?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I would love to come back.
Speaker 3:There you go, so don't complain. Don't send me hate comments in the YouTube where you say why didn't you have him on? Don't do that Now. Where can people find you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we are on a look for Calliope Films. We're on. You know what is it? Instagram, facebook and now TikTok. Check out Kitty Get a Job Sketch Comedy. We didn't touch on that too much, but Kitty Get a Job, we do sketch comedy. We are currently working on our pilot to try and sell the show. Ooh, okay, we have Kevin McDonald involved from the Kids in the Hole sketch comedy show Damn, that's a famous guy. We got a famous guy.
Speaker 3:How? Yeah, he's a famous guy, we got a famous guy. Yeah, he's a famous guy.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. What sorry why?
Speaker 3:did you drop off? Sorry, no, that's all right he's.
Speaker 1:He's in one of our sketches. We're gonna do a local premiere soon. Um, he's, he's helping us write and he's in one of our sketches. He's come on board, dude what the?
Speaker 3:fuck very cool, it's very exciting that's not just cool, that's fucking astonishing thank you lots of.
Speaker 1:We got lucky and lots of hard work and lots of luck combined. So what the fuck you have to drop, you know what that's a tease, see see the second episode is coming soon.
Speaker 3:Now, the last question I have for you is this well, a few, there's three. Um, what's next for you as as a person, chris? And then what's next for calliope films, and then what's next for everything else that you want to mention? Oh gosh, um, I'm sorry, I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's a great question um, you know, I think for me personally it's um, you know, we're working on, uh, some big, some big things, you know, currently trying to. Um, that's kind of a cliby answer.
Speaker 1:For me, personally, it's always just working on how, how to be, how to be a better person how to be how to be the person I want to be um, so constant, you know, really constant self-work there and just um, trying to keep myself healthy physically and mentally, because set is demanding and I want to make sure I'm there for the people I need to be. So, for some reason, I feel like I have some responsibilities to uphold, not only personally for me, but the people around me.
Speaker 1:So I feel compelled to stay in the right mind to make it happen For Calliope Films. We are in the middle of doing a bunch of different expansion kind of deals, you know, expanding into the great city of Mobile Alabama, getting into the future film world over there.
Speaker 3:He's going to take over United States guys.
Speaker 1:And then we're also expanding to New York. Whoa, we're going to be. Nothing is Changing in Pensacola or in the Southeast.
Speaker 3:You're leaving us. No, no, no, You're going to leave us with Daddy, you should know.
Speaker 1:No, no no, listen, listen, we'll be back and forth, nothing is Changing.
Speaker 3:Why New York? There's LA ATO, but why New York?
Speaker 1:I ATO, but why New York? I have direct connections up there that help me get work and also I really like New York. It's fun. It's always been part of the dream to be up there at some point. I'm going to be where the work is. Most of the things I do for Calarpe I can do remotely. I'll be back and forth. I think in the beginning I'll probably be in Pensacola three weeks a month and in New York one week a month Just depends on the jobs that I'm booking.
Speaker 1:Just expanding ourselves and ideas to one get better at what we do. We work with varying people with different experiences that can teach us how to be better. And then I want to build a bridge from New York to Pensacola. I'm calling it a bridge of opportunity.
Speaker 3:And you're going to have your own Statue of Liberty along with the Statue of something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you know, I think I can bring some work here from there and vice versa. So, like that's the thing, I think that's what I want to try to do. They keep sending DPs here from Brooklyn and directors here from Brooklyn, and I'm like we have that here already. Okay.
Speaker 1:So just trying to bridge that gap a little bit, and then, yeah, you know, and then everything else, man, it's just out here, you know, going to stay grinding. Yeah, going to stay in the gym, going to stay as healthy as I can, keep my mind right and then hopefully maintain as much gratitude with the process, understand how lucky we are to do what?
Speaker 1:we do and then support as many people as I can. The only thing I say anytime I platform, I always say this hey, go, support your creative friends and your artists around you. If they're having a show, go, just go. All right, I know you're probably tired, it's a Wednesday night. Why are they doing punk shows on a Wednesday night? I don't know. Go, go, do it. Go to your friend's art gallery, go to your friend's improv show or theater show, whatever. Go. That is the only way arts can grow is if you show up and show people that there's a demand for it. If you don't go, then it doesn't exist. Art exists and what we do exists because people choose to go. If you're a filmmaker, people buy tickets to go see those movies, right, if they don't buy those tickets, then it doesn't happen. So it's the same deal in a smaller scale Go, buy those tickets, go to those shows, support your friends. That's how it works.
Speaker 3:Just show up you know the same way you show up for your clients every three to six months. Hello, it's chris, you want to talk?
Speaker 1:over coffee again. There you go, it'll be fun too.
Speaker 3:And then the last thing is what is the? One thing at your deathbed. I don't mean to go morbid here guys but what is the one thing that you will that will definitely get you to say, you know what I finally feel like I've made the most out of my life, when it's the one moment, slash thing, slash event, that will finally make you feel like you did what you were supposed to be, what you did, what you're supposed to do on this earth at the end of your life.
Speaker 1:I hope I can find the success that I want and find the projects that I want to work on, while at the same time making sure the people around me know how much I love and care for them. I hope I I want to do both, If I you know, a lot of times it's hard to do both. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But my goal is to you know when I'm laying there and knowing, hey, I did all the things I wanted to do and everyone around me knows how much I appreciate them and I made them feel special and I made them feel like they were special to me. That's really important to me. I don't I, you know, I cringe at you know any time I'd ever snapped at someone or said something I should not have or whatever, and I really hope I can lay there and like you know that, hey, you know what you did okay by folks and you did some cool stuff too. But most importantly, people around you, um, are glad you were around and glad that you were part of their lives, and I'm sure they can say the same for you, even if you don't hear it but I'm going to steal this bit from spider-man.
Speaker 3:You know that green goblin said you can't have it.
Speaker 1:Oh, spider-man brought it back full circle. What full circle moment.
Speaker 3:Yes, now guys, thank you so much, chris, thank you so much for driving all the way here seriously of course, so sorry I was late. No, no, no, no, no, no. Film production context Film production is very unpredictable and therefore, if you still show up, like what he just said, show up, you're fine, show up.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for making the time here, and guys, as always, I'm not going to say my social, and it's already episode. What 15 is in the description. Okay, you already know out. Um, thank you so much for watching. Uh, you can like and subscribe. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Not doing the youtuber thing, it's too crunchy. You know what to do. Thank you so much for watching and stay tuned for the next episode with chris and this next guest that I have coming up. Oh, my god, you guys gonna love it. Uh, bye-bye and cut. Thank you.
